2 Clever Ex-Muslims Asked Hard Questions! - Does Noah's Flood Make Sense? - Towards Eternity
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- Frankly, I do not find the story of Prophet Noah (pbuh) very logical. - Explaining the universe as an art exhibition with a very limited way is wrong. -If we're created, you know how everything happens for a reason, right? Brother, what is the reason? Sometimes I ask. - Frankly, in your case, if I owned that field I would say, "What the hell?" I would rebel. -Because I am sceptical, I can't fully believe in faith. + Is it okay for us to post this on YouTube? - Yes, it's ok. - No problem + What do you do? Do you study or work? - We are studying. + What do you believe in, or do you have any faith? - I'm sceptic, so I'm sceptical!
-If science explains something to a certain extent, I believe it. Other than that, one must believe in one's innate nature. When we are afraid, or there is something else etc., I believe in science to the extent that science explains it. I believe in other things sceptically. + Regarding the existence of a creator, do you say "There is a creator" at any point? - I say, "It is a possibility." + What do you say? Do you accept it as a possibility, even a low possibility? - I do. - There is a creator, but I'm not sure if this is the creator everyone thinks it is. + I'd like to ask you a few questions, since you are a deist. You're more of a deist-sceptic. Let's say you're somewhere in between.
- Okay. + Let's say that you painted a picture using all the colours in the World. You started to display this painting in an exhibition and invited people to it. Would you light this place up on such an occasion or would you leave the painting in the dark and cause the colours not to be noticed? - We'll light it up. - I'll light it up. + Right? Otherwise what? There's no point in using colours. Right? - Right. + I say that: Like this example, the creator we believe in created the universe as a colourful realm, let alone the painting. He didn't just paint but created living creatures of all sorts.
Now you see, when you look at plants, even plants have hundreds of varieties, hundreds of thousands of varieties. When you consider animals, there are millions of different species and kinds of animals. Or take humans as an example, with their very complicated emotions; Humans are beings who can think and reason. Let me ask you again: As we said, "When we use colours, we light it up. It doesn't make sense not to light it up.", is it possible to create a universe full of colours and not to light it up with the light of prophecy? - But, I think explaining the universe as an art exhibition in a limited way is wrong.
Other than that, if I'm doing the exhibit, if I painted those drawings, I would shine just one light so that different meanings and irregularities should not be visible, but, if we think of the example you gave, there's a lot of light, making those colours look different in everyone's eyes. + A very good point. Let's connect these two. I said, "Why isn't the example connected here?" when our conclusion here is this: So you can make a comparison in your mind. Let me get to your second question, and then it will be your turn. You said "Are there different lights?" Actually, all the prophets, 124,000 prophets, what they basically said is four things. They all said the same thing.
1- There is only one god. The matter of oneness. So there are four basic issues. All the prophets said the same thing, and you can see here that light is one. They all talked about the same thing, but if we try to get to the root of this question, as we said in the beginning, "As we light this place up, is it possible for the creator that He did not light the universe up? Wouldn't it make more sense to light it up? - It makes more sense. For example, I have something from the Holy Qur'an, I do not find the story of Prophet Noah (pbuh) very logical. Since I'm very sceptical about some issues, I can't give myself entirely to faith. +There are two different views about Noah's story.
The first one is: "This happened all over the World." The second one says, "No, it happened only in certain parts of the World." These are two different views. You may accept another view. You may accept any of these two views. If you accept the second view, there's nothing unreasonable about that, is there? In certain parts, when we consider the first one that it happened all over the World, I can answer that as well. - Yes. + Who is the subject here? Who is the doer here? The creator. The God we believe in, right?
Now, if we already see the creator as someone governing all material things, He already created matter from nothing and created all living creatures with His names of Al-Hayy - the eternally living one, and Al-Muhyi - the maintainer of life, He is the creator who brings into existence from nothing, it is not difficult for Him to destroy every living being and recreate them. So when we look at both views, they both make sense. Right? - Yeah. - I have another question. Everything happens for a reason, right? If we are created, if someone is setting a game, if they build a World, there's a reason for that. It's for people to have fun, you know, to make money Brother, what is the reason?
Sometimes I ask. + We can think of it this way: For example, a mother tucks her baby in when going to sleep. What will be her answer if we ask, "Why do you do this?" - "Because I love my baby." + "Because I love my baby." Right? This mother is not obliged to do that; we can see her compassion here. Or let's say you're a generous man, you say: "Well, gentlemen, it was a very nice conversation. Let's have something to eat over there for dinner.", and we eat. If I ask you, you'd say, "Well, I'm generous. It's something I have in me." Right? - Right. +At this point, Just like that, there are also names of God, attributes of God.
For example, we said generosity; there is a name of God, Which means The Infinitely Generous. He shows His generosity in this World by creating all beings in this universe, and then, in eternal heaven, where he shows his infinite generosity, or, like we said, "The mother shows her compassion with her love." This is the love in the mother; it's her attribute. Likewise, God is, in other words, He has The Infinite Compassion. He creates all the living beings in the universe. He values humankind and sends them to the World as His caliphs. He treats them with His compassion here and continues to show them His compassion in heaven.
Another name of God is that is, to act with the highest level of hikmah wisdom in everything He does. What is wisdom? What He does in everything, He does with the highest level of benefit and the highest level of reason. For instance, today you are wearing long sleeves, I'm wearing a coat. - Why? + It is cold, right? - It's cold. + This is wisdom. What we are doing makes sense. In the works of God, He does what is most beneficial and reasonable. His creation of all living beings is also a reflection of this attribute. God wants to show His infinite treasures to the beings He created and blesses them after the good and bad people are sorted out with justice and judged in a fair trial.
When we look at the names of God, we conclude that the creation of this universe is the best outcome. Do you understand a little bit more now? - Yeah, just a little bit. - Thank you. - This might be a good way of thinking individually, but if we take all of humanity into account or the whole World, it won't work. There will be no reason for people to work. - Why do we try to make money? + Why? If I eat bread or pasta, my stomach will be full, If I eat delicious and luxurious food, my stomach will be full, but there is no need for it. Why? Because after this World, I will be rewarded ... You know, they would follow this kind of thinking.
Therefore there will be nonsensical debates around this. I don't think a society can move forward in this way. + When we look at the Holy Qur'an, the information it provides, it shows the World as a hamlet, as a field. You've heard of that, haven't you? "The World is a field for cultivating the hereafter." Did you hear that? - No, I didn't hear that. + It is said, "The World is a field for cultivating the hereafter." What does this mean? In the World, if you seek to do good deeds, if you seek kindness, the outcome will be yours in the afterlife.
You said, "People won't work in this World." I say, "Quite the opposite." If Islam suggests "to compete for kindness", a doctor will be the best doctor, the most compassionate doctor, and will provide the best service to the people because this World is a field for cultivating the hereafter. With this kind of thinking, - Let's say you have a field and I have a field. Mine is in a nice place, with plenty of water. Yours is in a bad place with slimy soil. The only thing you can grow is rice. I can grow anything in my field, and you can't go forward because of my field. Because it can't grow anything.
If the World is a field for cultivating the hereafter, as you said, because of rice and the slimy soil, you can't grow beautiful things, whereas I can grow anything I want. If I owned your field in this example, I would say, "What the hell?" and rebel. + Here, we need to look at what God wants from us. If God wanted the same results from everyone .... He provided you with wealth and me with poverty, if He asks both of us for the same zakat, alms, for example, if He asks us to give away the same amount in charity, we may ask that question. - same money... Since the ratio is the same, the money is actually the same. - Since the ratio is the same, the money is actually the same.
+ No, + No, this is justice. - mathematically... + He provides you with wealth and says: "What you do in your field here, you can do great good here with your alms. The other person bakes bread in his oven. The best service you can do for people is to bake bread. So, mathematically, we can think of it as: If God has given you 100 in wealth, and wants 50% from it, so if He gives me 10, He will want 5 out of 10. What is the result? The rate is the same. - The ratio is the same. + That will be justice. It won't be unfair. - Actually, there is no justice; there is inequality again. - there is inequality again. + Is equality the same as justice? + Is equality the same as justice? - No, it's not.
+ Equality and justice are two different things. Am I wrong? - You are right. - How can a child be born in the middle of a war and have a field of his own? + Look, what do we mean by the field example here? We mean the characteristics given to the person and the test. For example, patience is a test and a field. Someone having a hard time. As you said, someone growing up in a war zone. Going through difficulties is his test of patience, and the struggles become his field, but, if he comes here, he will have the test of wealth. After that, he will have the test of gratitude. What is the test of someone who has everything?
It is the test of "Are these possessions gifts or are they my property?" This time, the guy says, "I own everything. So all these possessions are mine, I don't need a creator." Now, this man, who was doing well in his test, according to you, in less than no time, he destroys his field. Let's wrap it up a bit more if you want. If you think about everything we talked about; like that example of a painter, the colouring, the lighting. Isn't it reasonable for the creator, I mean the God, to send a prophet just like it is described in Islam, to shine a light of prophecy and explain the rules to the World? - It makes a little sense, but I can't say it is exactly as you described.
I think of life as a journey. If there is a creator, I am never afraid of him because I want to love him. I do not want to be afraid of God; I want to love him. + What do you say? - Personally, as I said in the beginning, until science explains. There is a need to believe in one's innate nature. It could be a creator; it could be an objective; it could be anything. There is a need to believe in our inborn nature. + Do you have anything to say? - No, no, thank you. + What is your belief? - Apatheism, it's also known as pragmatic atheism. - I'm a christian, I became a christian afterwords. - I've been deist for the last 2 years.
- Science has already explained it to us, at least it doesn't seem estonishing to me. - I think you're looking for the prophet in the wrong place. - Then I would also like to be born in a tribe and eat avocado in paradise after I die. + I'll prove it at the level of 2+2=4 I'll prove it 100% - Ashhadu an la ilaha illallah wa ashhadu anna Muhammadan abduhu ve rasuluh. - Ashhadu an la ilaha illallah wa ashhadu anna Muhammadan abduhu ve rasuluh.
-If science explains something to a certain extent, I believe it. Other than that, one must believe in one's innate nature. When we are afraid, or there is something else etc., I believe in science to the extent that science explains it. I believe in other things sceptically. + Regarding the existence of a creator, do you say "There is a creator" at any point? - I say, "It is a possibility." + What do you say? Do you accept it as a possibility, even a low possibility? - I do. - There is a creator, but I'm not sure if this is the creator everyone thinks it is. + I'd like to ask you a few questions, since you are a deist. You're more of a deist-sceptic. Let's say you're somewhere in between.
- Okay. + Let's say that you painted a picture using all the colours in the World. You started to display this painting in an exhibition and invited people to it. Would you light this place up on such an occasion or would you leave the painting in the dark and cause the colours not to be noticed? - We'll light it up. - I'll light it up. + Right? Otherwise what? There's no point in using colours. Right? - Right. + I say that: Like this example, the creator we believe in created the universe as a colourful realm, let alone the painting. He didn't just paint but created living creatures of all sorts.
Now you see, when you look at plants, even plants have hundreds of varieties, hundreds of thousands of varieties. When you consider animals, there are millions of different species and kinds of animals. Or take humans as an example, with their very complicated emotions; Humans are beings who can think and reason. Let me ask you again: As we said, "When we use colours, we light it up. It doesn't make sense not to light it up.", is it possible to create a universe full of colours and not to light it up with the light of prophecy? - But, I think explaining the universe as an art exhibition in a limited way is wrong.
Other than that, if I'm doing the exhibit, if I painted those drawings, I would shine just one light so that different meanings and irregularities should not be visible, but, if we think of the example you gave, there's a lot of light, making those colours look different in everyone's eyes. + A very good point. Let's connect these two. I said, "Why isn't the example connected here?" when our conclusion here is this: So you can make a comparison in your mind. Let me get to your second question, and then it will be your turn. You said "Are there different lights?" Actually, all the prophets, 124,000 prophets, what they basically said is four things. They all said the same thing.
1- There is only one god. The matter of oneness. So there are four basic issues. All the prophets said the same thing, and you can see here that light is one. They all talked about the same thing, but if we try to get to the root of this question, as we said in the beginning, "As we light this place up, is it possible for the creator that He did not light the universe up? Wouldn't it make more sense to light it up? - It makes more sense. For example, I have something from the Holy Qur'an, I do not find the story of Prophet Noah (pbuh) very logical. Since I'm very sceptical about some issues, I can't give myself entirely to faith. +There are two different views about Noah's story.
The first one is: "This happened all over the World." The second one says, "No, it happened only in certain parts of the World." These are two different views. You may accept another view. You may accept any of these two views. If you accept the second view, there's nothing unreasonable about that, is there? In certain parts, when we consider the first one that it happened all over the World, I can answer that as well. - Yes. + Who is the subject here? Who is the doer here? The creator. The God we believe in, right?
Now, if we already see the creator as someone governing all material things, He already created matter from nothing and created all living creatures with His names of Al-Hayy - the eternally living one, and Al-Muhyi - the maintainer of life, He is the creator who brings into existence from nothing, it is not difficult for Him to destroy every living being and recreate them. So when we look at both views, they both make sense. Right? - Yeah. - I have another question. Everything happens for a reason, right? If we are created, if someone is setting a game, if they build a World, there's a reason for that. It's for people to have fun, you know, to make money Brother, what is the reason?
Sometimes I ask. + We can think of it this way: For example, a mother tucks her baby in when going to sleep. What will be her answer if we ask, "Why do you do this?" - "Because I love my baby." + "Because I love my baby." Right? This mother is not obliged to do that; we can see her compassion here. Or let's say you're a generous man, you say: "Well, gentlemen, it was a very nice conversation. Let's have something to eat over there for dinner.", and we eat. If I ask you, you'd say, "Well, I'm generous. It's something I have in me." Right? - Right. +At this point, Just like that, there are also names of God, attributes of God.
For example, we said generosity; there is a name of God, Which means The Infinitely Generous. He shows His generosity in this World by creating all beings in this universe, and then, in eternal heaven, where he shows his infinite generosity, or, like we said, "The mother shows her compassion with her love." This is the love in the mother; it's her attribute. Likewise, God is, in other words, He has The Infinite Compassion. He creates all the living beings in the universe. He values humankind and sends them to the World as His caliphs. He treats them with His compassion here and continues to show them His compassion in heaven.
Another name of God is that is, to act with the highest level of hikmah wisdom in everything He does. What is wisdom? What He does in everything, He does with the highest level of benefit and the highest level of reason. For instance, today you are wearing long sleeves, I'm wearing a coat. - Why? + It is cold, right? - It's cold. + This is wisdom. What we are doing makes sense. In the works of God, He does what is most beneficial and reasonable. His creation of all living beings is also a reflection of this attribute. God wants to show His infinite treasures to the beings He created and blesses them after the good and bad people are sorted out with justice and judged in a fair trial.
When we look at the names of God, we conclude that the creation of this universe is the best outcome. Do you understand a little bit more now? - Yeah, just a little bit. - Thank you. - This might be a good way of thinking individually, but if we take all of humanity into account or the whole World, it won't work. There will be no reason for people to work. - Why do we try to make money? + Why? If I eat bread or pasta, my stomach will be full, If I eat delicious and luxurious food, my stomach will be full, but there is no need for it. Why? Because after this World, I will be rewarded ... You know, they would follow this kind of thinking.
Therefore there will be nonsensical debates around this. I don't think a society can move forward in this way. + When we look at the Holy Qur'an, the information it provides, it shows the World as a hamlet, as a field. You've heard of that, haven't you? "The World is a field for cultivating the hereafter." Did you hear that? - No, I didn't hear that. + It is said, "The World is a field for cultivating the hereafter." What does this mean? In the World, if you seek to do good deeds, if you seek kindness, the outcome will be yours in the afterlife.
You said, "People won't work in this World." I say, "Quite the opposite." If Islam suggests "to compete for kindness", a doctor will be the best doctor, the most compassionate doctor, and will provide the best service to the people because this World is a field for cultivating the hereafter. With this kind of thinking, - Let's say you have a field and I have a field. Mine is in a nice place, with plenty of water. Yours is in a bad place with slimy soil. The only thing you can grow is rice. I can grow anything in my field, and you can't go forward because of my field. Because it can't grow anything.
If the World is a field for cultivating the hereafter, as you said, because of rice and the slimy soil, you can't grow beautiful things, whereas I can grow anything I want. If I owned your field in this example, I would say, "What the hell?" and rebel. + Here, we need to look at what God wants from us. If God wanted the same results from everyone .... He provided you with wealth and me with poverty, if He asks both of us for the same zakat, alms, for example, if He asks us to give away the same amount in charity, we may ask that question. - same money... Since the ratio is the same, the money is actually the same. - Since the ratio is the same, the money is actually the same.
+ No, + No, this is justice. - mathematically... + He provides you with wealth and says: "What you do in your field here, you can do great good here with your alms. The other person bakes bread in his oven. The best service you can do for people is to bake bread. So, mathematically, we can think of it as: If God has given you 100 in wealth, and wants 50% from it, so if He gives me 10, He will want 5 out of 10. What is the result? The rate is the same. - The ratio is the same. + That will be justice. It won't be unfair. - Actually, there is no justice; there is inequality again. - there is inequality again. + Is equality the same as justice? + Is equality the same as justice? - No, it's not.
+ Equality and justice are two different things. Am I wrong? - You are right. - How can a child be born in the middle of a war and have a field of his own? + Look, what do we mean by the field example here? We mean the characteristics given to the person and the test. For example, patience is a test and a field. Someone having a hard time. As you said, someone growing up in a war zone. Going through difficulties is his test of patience, and the struggles become his field, but, if he comes here, he will have the test of wealth. After that, he will have the test of gratitude. What is the test of someone who has everything?
It is the test of "Are these possessions gifts or are they my property?" This time, the guy says, "I own everything. So all these possessions are mine, I don't need a creator." Now, this man, who was doing well in his test, according to you, in less than no time, he destroys his field. Let's wrap it up a bit more if you want. If you think about everything we talked about; like that example of a painter, the colouring, the lighting. Isn't it reasonable for the creator, I mean the God, to send a prophet just like it is described in Islam, to shine a light of prophecy and explain the rules to the World? - It makes a little sense, but I can't say it is exactly as you described.
I think of life as a journey. If there is a creator, I am never afraid of him because I want to love him. I do not want to be afraid of God; I want to love him. + What do you say? - Personally, as I said in the beginning, until science explains. There is a need to believe in one's innate nature. It could be a creator; it could be an objective; it could be anything. There is a need to believe in our inborn nature. + Do you have anything to say? - No, no, thank you. + What is your belief? - Apatheism, it's also known as pragmatic atheism. - I'm a christian, I became a christian afterwords. - I've been deist for the last 2 years.
- Science has already explained it to us, at least it doesn't seem estonishing to me. - I think you're looking for the prophet in the wrong place. - Then I would also like to be born in a tribe and eat avocado in paradise after I die. + I'll prove it at the level of 2+2=4 I'll prove it 100% - Ashhadu an la ilaha illallah wa ashhadu anna Muhammadan abduhu ve rasuluh. - Ashhadu an la ilaha illallah wa ashhadu anna Muhammadan abduhu ve rasuluh.