Tough Questions To Hamza Tzortzis! - Debates With Famous Atheists! Converted Twice?
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How did you convert to Islam? We heard that you became Muslim twice. Can you explain this? How did your family and friends react when you embraced Islam? Have you ever tried to give da'wah to your family? You had a debate with one of the world's most famous atheists. Did you feel excited, angry or fearing that I can't explain Islam well? I don't know. It's a very difficult question. I actually used to pray before I became Muslim There have been moments where I was very close to leaving the da'wah or giving up. What is the biggest dream that you want to come true? The Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam he said in a Hadith We want to start with who is Hamza Tzortzis?
That's a very good question. There is a tradition. It's not necessarily a Hadith. Subhanahu wa ta'ala that he would send We have a big problem. Oh, sorry. The problem is that you have so much knowledge. I have to make it simple, right? I know it's hard, but you got to short your knowledge. Yeah. I just asked who's Hamza Tzortzis. Okay. That's fine. Yeah, I was going to basically say, I don't know. Yeah. Okay. Who is Hamza Tzortzis? That's a very good question. So I was born in England, in London in 1980. I converted to Islam in 2002. My parents come from a Greek background.
My mother is from Cyprus and my dad is from Greece, Athena And I'm 41 years old, Alhamdulillah, and I am a student of Islam. And I want to educate people about Islam. And I hope to do that with hikma, with wisdom, and with Rahma, with mercy. Alhamdulillah Before Islam Were you a Christian like your family, or were you in the process of searching? That's another good question. I wouldn't say I was brought up as a Christian per say, although we believed in God. My dad moved away from dogmatic religion. Basically. He believed in Jesus. He believed in spirituality. He believed in humanistic type of values. But also he wasn't secular from that perspective. He was very spiritual.
So my father had his existential journey, he had his own idea of what it means to connect to God. And because he was anti church, not anti church, that he hated the church, but he was like the churches in your heart, right? You don't need the church to connect to God. And he had that type of perspective. But sometimes we would go to Greek church during Easter because in the Greek Orthodox tradition, Easter is more significant than Christmas. So I wouldn't even consider ourselves as Christian Maybe more like secular, spiritual, humanist types, if that makes sense. How did you convert to Islam? We heard that you became Muslim twice. Can you explain this? Well, that's not entirely true.
It wasn't the second time I became Muslim, because in the video, there's a video that's online. It's almost the second time I became Muslim because there was a period when I became Muslim where I was affected with a destructive doubt. But along my journey I realised that the Islamic intellectual tradition had the answers. So in the beginning of my journey, I was attracted to the values of Islam. I was convinced with the Islamic intellectual tradition, the intellectual foundations of Islam. And I also had an attraction to the values of Islam. And the other thing that helped me become a muslim was I actually used to pray before I became Muslim.
And I remember my friend telling me he wasn't really my friend at the time. He was a little bit, but we weren't that close. But he was my brother's friend. And I remember him saying when I was at college to my Muslim friends, if I remember correctly, he basically said, When you're in Sajdah, you are closest to Allah, you're closest to your Lord, to supplicate, talk to Allah. So I learnt how to pray and I would pray and I would talk to Allah in Sajdah and ask him for guidance. How did your family and friends react when you embraced Islam? Have you ever tried to give da'wah to your family?
It was difficult to some degree because they felt that they probably had a negative understanding of Islam based on maybe historical reasons, social reasons, things that they read. But now the perception is totally different. We have a very kind of authentic, open relationship where I talk about various things concerning Islam and, you know, they sit and listen and especially my dad is like, oh, really? That's that's, you know. He shows a lot of interest. And I think the best way to give da'wah to your your parents is to be dedicated to be dedicated to this service, you know, to be. Lisan-i hal (With behaviour) Yeah.
So it reminds me of what Professor Suleyman Derin he's from Marmara University. His parents were ill. So I was WhatsApp-ing him I was trying to give him some type of encouragement and and he said something very moving. He basically said, I'm trying to deserve their prayers for me. So you have to be at the service of your parents as best as possible. What is the biggest dream that you wanted to come true? The Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam he said in a Hadith, love for the people what you love for yourself, Love for lin-nass. This is different from the Hadith concerning brotherhood.
The other hadith is, is which is also authentic hadith Laa yu'minu ahadukum hatta yuhibu li akhihi maa yuhibu li-nafsihi - you won't truly believe unless you love for your brother what you love for yourself. This also means humanity as well. So imagine we show to people, whoever they are, that we're committed to the happiness, we're committed to the goodness, we're committed to the well-being. And obviously, the dream is of people closer to you to be happy, including your parents in this life and in the Akirah. If only they knew who Allah really was, and if only they connected to Allah the way Allah wants them to connect to him.
If that happened, a lot of these things would totally disappear, you know I remember one moment when I was driving my parents to my house for dinner and then I took them back. We're talking about different things. And my parents were like, you know, almost bickering, but in a nice way. And I was just naturally saying things about the Prophet (S.A.W) say, Mom, chill out. You know, the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) He would say this and whatever the case may be. And my dad was listening, so it came naturally. It was a natural response to what was going on. And on the way back, I said, you know, the stuff that you told me today, Andrea, you know, I believe this Mohammed (S.A.W) is a prophet.
You know, he said those words, right? Because, you know, the ethics and the narrative that I was that I was expressing was natural. And I do that a lot now. Hopefully these days, you know, you plant the seeds, you plant the seeds. And it's Allah's job to decide what He wants to do with that seed. Was there a moment when you said, I can't do this anymore, I'm quitting the da'wah? There have been moments where I was very close to leaving the da'wah or giving up, if you like. Now, every time from what I remember when I tried to do that, Allah gave me something to ensure that I stayed on this path or helped me. There's there's a few moments, but let me give you one experience.
So from what I remember, I was in Pakistan and I was giving lectures at the private universities, and I came back and I think it was at Fajr time when - after I prayed Fajr, I made dua to Allah. And it was a very specific dua because in that evening I was going to have a debate with Professor Graeme Thompson at Queen Mary, University of London.
And it was on the topic of Islam or Atheism, I believe, and if I remember correctly, I was very disheartened with the da'wah, meaning I didn't want to - I needed a sign actually asked Allah for a sign, from what From ı remember was many years ago, but if I remember correctly, was like, Oh Allah, show me a sign for me to stay on this path that someone today at the debate becomes Muslim. I was very specific. So fast forward a few hours. I had a debate with Professor Graham Thompson, it was a successful debate Alhamdulillah. And as I was walking away, going home, I think my son was with me at the time.
Brothers stopped me and they went to have a conversation with me and they introduced me to this half Greek, half Serbian brother called George from what I remember his name was George and he basically was not Muslim and he was interested in Islam and he already received some materials and he was reading about Islam, but he had a question about the Prophet (S.A.W) and he wanted to know more. So I gave him the argument that, which was about if you reject the Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam it's the equivalent of rejecting your own mother. If you want to know more about this argument, you could download my book for free. It's called The Divine Reality.
It's available on the Sapience Institute website, and there is a Turkish version of that book, it's Chapter 14. And I said, if you if you understand this, I'm not telling you to become a Muslim, but at least be consistent. Here's my phone. I think I had a BlackBerry phone at that time. I just almost threw it at him. I said, here's my phone. Call your mother and say that you have to doubt her because now you're not accepting the Prophet (Saw) That's the general gist of that idea. So he basically becomes Muslim because he understood that if I reject the Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam based on what Hamza just told me in the conversation that we had.
It was around an hour or more conversation. I think it was about an hour and a half or something, or at least about an hour. And he realised if I reject this man, Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam it's the equivalent of rejecting my own mother, but I know my mother gave birth to me, but there's far more evidence concerning that the Prophet (Saw) is the final prophet, and he was speaking the truth and he became a Muslim. And he's such a nice guy. He's amazing akhlaq, a very humble person So you got the sign and then. Well, then He helps you, doesn't it? And then you continue. You had a debate with one of the world's most famous atheists, how was the moment for you?
Did you feel excited, angry or fearing that I can't explain Islam, well? There's always a worry that you're not going to do good or you're not going to do great, or you're going to say some things that you shouldn't have said. And that's just part of life. And we make mistakes like it happens to us all the time. And when I prepared for that debate, it was a significant moment because it was, I think, one of the first times that in contemporary era that a muslim had an engagement, intellectual engagement with the atheist, because the new atheist movement was relatively new, it's a post-9-11 phenomenon, if you like. And at that time, you know, new atheism was on the rise.
Now it's almost dead is dying in the West, but it's going to other countries now. Yeah, the new atheism, atheism itself is different from new atheism yeah, there's a there are distinctions to be made. But Professor Krauss was, you know, I think he was being seen as a replacement for Christopher Hitchens because at that time he was quite unwell. And anyway. Was there a successfull debate for you? Yeah, of course. I mean, it's nearly got 5 million views. It still gets lots of views from a views perspective. It's successful, but that doesn't mean anything because views doesn't always mean impact.
My point is it was successful from the point of view that even though I made mistakes after that, I did a master's in philosophy, I did a master's in research in philosophy, and now I'm doing my Ph.D. So obviously I've developed hopefully quite a lot since then. And I do want to one day analyse that debate and maybe fix some of the errors and maybe unpack some of the ideas that I wanted to portray because it wasn't perfect. But nevertheless, the very fact that a Muslim was there with a famous academic who is an atheist, probably a new atheist. The very fact I was there and challenging him, we already won. That's why his strategy, I believe, was just to belittle me.
And people became Muslim because of that debate and people are still watching it. Now, are debates, the best way forward for the da'wah? Debates should be used again in context based on the Maslahah-Mafsadah. Does it increase the benefits? Does it decrease the harms? My debate with Professor Krauss, it was at the right time i think because new atheism was taking hold of the Muslim community. And this actually was, you know, someone trying to defend Islam and show the veracity of Islam. And it worked to a certain degree, right. Alhamdulillah. Have you ever been attacked while giving da'wah? No. You mean physically attacked? Yes. No. Because if that did happen, they would have a Janazah no.
I'm only kidding. No, but there was confrontational moments. I remember many years ago I had a conversation with someone from the extreme right wing and he was trying to belittle Islam and so on and so forth. He came very close to me. I tried to get the best out of him and at the end he hugged me. And I think this is something that we should adopt in the da'wah. It's creating the best version of that person through the conversation. And this is similar, I believe, to the Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam the way he spoke to people who get the best version out of people through how he interacted with them.
For what I remember Khalid bin Walid was butchering the Muslims before he became a Muslim. How did he become a Muslim? I think he wrote a letter, got someone to write a letter to Khalid bin Walid and say, how can a wise person, such a wise person, how can he not become a Muslim? So do you see he's elevating the person, he's getting the best out of the person through his expression to get the best out of that person. And they will give you the best results. And this is a very hard thing to do. You have to be very conscious of it, but it really works. For example, sometimes in a da'wah context someone says, are you allowed to hit your women? Yes or no, yes or no?
Or do you believe you should cut the hand? Yes or no? Yes or no? And they say yes or no, just yes or no. And I'll be like, Listen, my friend, I know you're a sincere person, and I know if I asked you a question about what is your views on abortion, yes or no, yes or no is not going to represent you. So it's not going to represent me. I know you're sincere and I know you here to hear me out and to really engage with me. And I'm really happy you didn't go on Google, but you came to me. And since you're such a sincere guy, I'm telling you, just give me 2 minutes. I'm going to explain this to you and then they become calm. Say, okay, then, no problem.
Because what you've done, you've affirmed that this sincere you've affirmed that they're such a nice person, even though they may have come to you with aggression, even though they may have come to you with harshness. But this is what I spoke about earlier, surah Fusilat chapter fourty one, verse thirty four, good and evil are not the same, repelled by that which is better. And if there's any hatred between two people who return to intimate friendship, so speak to people in confrontational situations in a way that gets the best out of them, even though they don't deserve, even though they're not expressing the best version of themselves.
But the minute you do it, you create that personality in the dynamic of the conversation. And if it doesn't work, then obviously you have every right to protect yourself. But you should try your best. Because remember what I said earlier before, it always links to principles, ask the question, what does Allah want from me from this situation? A specific characteristic, for example, Hamza, that you're giving da'wah you're so angry. No, actually, A common criticizing maybe in the past, but in the past, maybe eight years or five years, I get criticised for being too nice or too soft. Yeah, they say where's the lion? We want the lion back yeah. Now I'm going to be very honest with you.
I feel that if you're always one trait, if you're always aggressive and angry, with all due respect, that is a huge sign of weakness. You could have prayed, read the Qur’an by yourself and move on with your life, with your own life. Why did you choose a path like this? I mean, giving da'wah. I think it was in line with my personality when I loved something, I would talk about it. So it's a natural thing. If you love something, you're going to share it. So naturally, if you love Islam, you would want to share it as well. Look, at the end of the day, I have tasted a very sweet mango. I've tasted this mango. If I'm a good human being, I want other people to taste this mango, right?
I want to share this goodness that I have. And I've had this experience of sweetness, which is Islam. And if the whole world says to me, no, it's not sweet, I'm not going to believe them because they haven't tasted my mango, right? So you have that sense of confidence because I've tasted I want you to taste what I'm tasting. So that's another motivation that you want. Good for people like you. If you if you're a decent human being, you know, you want to be committed to the goodness and guidance of all people. We want people to be happy and this is what makes people happy. Then you need to give it to people. What's wrong with you? Why are you so selfish?
And just just to end on this point, the reward is so huge. Think about this. Imagine one person becomes a muslim because of your work through the will of Allah. One person that person becomes married to this two people now and they have two children. So there's four people now and then they get married and they have two children each within one or two generations, you're getting the reward for ten people the Salah, the Qiyam, the Sadaqa, the Zakat, the recitation of the Qur’an, the Hajj, the Umrah, the good deeds, the Sadaqa, and so on and so forth. You get all of that reward just because by giving da'wah to one person, you open the one or two generations of Muslims.
It's very important for us to, you know, if you think about the reward aspect, there's nothing more rewarding. But it's also, for me, meaningful because you know what you're going to do, you going to read Qur’an and pray and you're going to be at home and then you get married. You have kids, you have a job, you get a house, you get a car, then you die. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to do. You could have a very pious life. Do you have an added meaning to your existence because Allah says in the Qur’an, Oh, you who believe respond to the call of Allah and his messenger to that which gives you life.
This ayah is talking to people who are already alive, so it's as if Allah is giving you life on top of your life. And for me there is a sense of added meaning that you're talking about the truth of Islam. So that would be my answer concerning why I do things like this. If you had the opportunity to watch a moment from time of our Prophet's life, what moment would it be? It's a very difficult question.
I don't know this so many moments, but it's very difficult to ok if you look at the life of the Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam and his daily routine, I think maybe if I wanted to experience his presence (S.A.W) it would probably be at Fajr time, spending time in the masjid praying Fajr Jamat and doing Dhikar and Adhkar and asking him questions. Because that was the moment, right? The Sahab would ask him questions. And you have an indication with this. Sahaba would also be very comfortable and relaxed and they would talk about their Jahiliah and laugh about it. Do you have a specific question that you want to personally ask the Prophet (S.A.W)? A specific question?
I would ask him to make dua for me the dua's of the Prophets (S.A.W) are accepted, right? So just make dua for me, make dua that you know, I'm successful in this life and hereafter and so is my family. What else can you ask for? I mean, think about it, is there anything else you can ask for and it's known that the Prophet (S.A.W) would not say no to requests. What else would you want? I mean. Well, I'm going to ask about, you know, the issues concerning the Ikhtilaf and Aqeedah or a question about this. This is becomes all irrelevant. Yeah, this is yeah. Mean this is all in the grand cosmic scheme of things. You're with the beloved of Allah (SWT). He's the beloved of Allah. Yeah.
I'm going to ask his beloved Habibullah. Please make dua for me and my family. Well, what else is there? Khaalas There's nothing else, right? You have one minute, and the whole world is listening to you right now. Christians, Jews, Atheists What would you like to say to them? Please turn to camera. You have just one minute. All Atheists, Jews, Christians, Muslims, all the people around you, even the people that the Amazons are listening you When you say I'm ready. I'll just start. I Are you getting sweaty? No, I'm trying to think of an answer. It's very difficult for someone like me to put that in one minute. You can't skip this question, you got to give the answer brother. Okay?
We can wait maybe I can say, you know. I put it like this 3, 2, 1 go. Brothers and sisters and friends and humanity. If you want contentment in this life and eternal bliss in the life to come, then say and internalise the following. La Ilaha Illallah Muhammadan Rasulullah There is no deity worthy of worship except Allah. And Muhammad is His messenger is His final messenger. We know Allah is worthy of worship by virtue of who He is. When you study His words, study the Qur’an, you realise the maximally perfect nature of His names and attributes and Allah is worthy of extensive praise and ultimate gratitude because of His names and attributes and praise and gratitude are a form of worship.
When you study the life of the Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam you come to the conclusion that he wasn't lying or deluded. It's not based on a legend, but rather he was speaking the truth. And if he's speaking the truth, then he is. The final messenger should be followed with regards to our way of life. Study these two things and inshallah, eternal bliss. ‘’Abi’’ (Brother in Turkish) right now. You look like you need a coffee my brotheri I can see in your eyes Lights are on light is on, no is at home Honestly, if you ask me questions, I could be here all day.
He's going to attack me if they attack me, they must be crazy, nah, nah I'm joking astaghfirullah, astaghfirullah I do one more time, one more time and you could choose which one best last one three. So the fourth one, take four that's one, five, five, we will get this right because that was longer than a minute and that was the best one I think. But we need it shorter. Eyvallah I feel sorry for the post-production team. +You are the hardest job ever. - AllahuAkbar
That's a very good question. There is a tradition. It's not necessarily a Hadith. Subhanahu wa ta'ala that he would send We have a big problem. Oh, sorry. The problem is that you have so much knowledge. I have to make it simple, right? I know it's hard, but you got to short your knowledge. Yeah. I just asked who's Hamza Tzortzis. Okay. That's fine. Yeah, I was going to basically say, I don't know. Yeah. Okay. Who is Hamza Tzortzis? That's a very good question. So I was born in England, in London in 1980. I converted to Islam in 2002. My parents come from a Greek background.
My mother is from Cyprus and my dad is from Greece, Athena And I'm 41 years old, Alhamdulillah, and I am a student of Islam. And I want to educate people about Islam. And I hope to do that with hikma, with wisdom, and with Rahma, with mercy. Alhamdulillah Before Islam Were you a Christian like your family, or were you in the process of searching? That's another good question. I wouldn't say I was brought up as a Christian per say, although we believed in God. My dad moved away from dogmatic religion. Basically. He believed in Jesus. He believed in spirituality. He believed in humanistic type of values. But also he wasn't secular from that perspective. He was very spiritual.
So my father had his existential journey, he had his own idea of what it means to connect to God. And because he was anti church, not anti church, that he hated the church, but he was like the churches in your heart, right? You don't need the church to connect to God. And he had that type of perspective. But sometimes we would go to Greek church during Easter because in the Greek Orthodox tradition, Easter is more significant than Christmas. So I wouldn't even consider ourselves as Christian Maybe more like secular, spiritual, humanist types, if that makes sense. How did you convert to Islam? We heard that you became Muslim twice. Can you explain this? Well, that's not entirely true.
It wasn't the second time I became Muslim, because in the video, there's a video that's online. It's almost the second time I became Muslim because there was a period when I became Muslim where I was affected with a destructive doubt. But along my journey I realised that the Islamic intellectual tradition had the answers. So in the beginning of my journey, I was attracted to the values of Islam. I was convinced with the Islamic intellectual tradition, the intellectual foundations of Islam. And I also had an attraction to the values of Islam. And the other thing that helped me become a muslim was I actually used to pray before I became Muslim.
And I remember my friend telling me he wasn't really my friend at the time. He was a little bit, but we weren't that close. But he was my brother's friend. And I remember him saying when I was at college to my Muslim friends, if I remember correctly, he basically said, When you're in Sajdah, you are closest to Allah, you're closest to your Lord, to supplicate, talk to Allah. So I learnt how to pray and I would pray and I would talk to Allah in Sajdah and ask him for guidance. How did your family and friends react when you embraced Islam? Have you ever tried to give da'wah to your family?
It was difficult to some degree because they felt that they probably had a negative understanding of Islam based on maybe historical reasons, social reasons, things that they read. But now the perception is totally different. We have a very kind of authentic, open relationship where I talk about various things concerning Islam and, you know, they sit and listen and especially my dad is like, oh, really? That's that's, you know. He shows a lot of interest. And I think the best way to give da'wah to your your parents is to be dedicated to be dedicated to this service, you know, to be. Lisan-i hal (With behaviour) Yeah.
So it reminds me of what Professor Suleyman Derin he's from Marmara University. His parents were ill. So I was WhatsApp-ing him I was trying to give him some type of encouragement and and he said something very moving. He basically said, I'm trying to deserve their prayers for me. So you have to be at the service of your parents as best as possible. What is the biggest dream that you wanted to come true? The Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam he said in a Hadith, love for the people what you love for yourself, Love for lin-nass. This is different from the Hadith concerning brotherhood.
The other hadith is, is which is also authentic hadith Laa yu'minu ahadukum hatta yuhibu li akhihi maa yuhibu li-nafsihi - you won't truly believe unless you love for your brother what you love for yourself. This also means humanity as well. So imagine we show to people, whoever they are, that we're committed to the happiness, we're committed to the goodness, we're committed to the well-being. And obviously, the dream is of people closer to you to be happy, including your parents in this life and in the Akirah. If only they knew who Allah really was, and if only they connected to Allah the way Allah wants them to connect to him.
If that happened, a lot of these things would totally disappear, you know I remember one moment when I was driving my parents to my house for dinner and then I took them back. We're talking about different things. And my parents were like, you know, almost bickering, but in a nice way. And I was just naturally saying things about the Prophet (S.A.W) say, Mom, chill out. You know, the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) He would say this and whatever the case may be. And my dad was listening, so it came naturally. It was a natural response to what was going on. And on the way back, I said, you know, the stuff that you told me today, Andrea, you know, I believe this Mohammed (S.A.W) is a prophet.
You know, he said those words, right? Because, you know, the ethics and the narrative that I was that I was expressing was natural. And I do that a lot now. Hopefully these days, you know, you plant the seeds, you plant the seeds. And it's Allah's job to decide what He wants to do with that seed. Was there a moment when you said, I can't do this anymore, I'm quitting the da'wah? There have been moments where I was very close to leaving the da'wah or giving up, if you like. Now, every time from what I remember when I tried to do that, Allah gave me something to ensure that I stayed on this path or helped me. There's there's a few moments, but let me give you one experience.
So from what I remember, I was in Pakistan and I was giving lectures at the private universities, and I came back and I think it was at Fajr time when - after I prayed Fajr, I made dua to Allah. And it was a very specific dua because in that evening I was going to have a debate with Professor Graeme Thompson at Queen Mary, University of London.
And it was on the topic of Islam or Atheism, I believe, and if I remember correctly, I was very disheartened with the da'wah, meaning I didn't want to - I needed a sign actually asked Allah for a sign, from what From ı remember was many years ago, but if I remember correctly, was like, Oh Allah, show me a sign for me to stay on this path that someone today at the debate becomes Muslim. I was very specific. So fast forward a few hours. I had a debate with Professor Graham Thompson, it was a successful debate Alhamdulillah. And as I was walking away, going home, I think my son was with me at the time.
Brothers stopped me and they went to have a conversation with me and they introduced me to this half Greek, half Serbian brother called George from what I remember his name was George and he basically was not Muslim and he was interested in Islam and he already received some materials and he was reading about Islam, but he had a question about the Prophet (S.A.W) and he wanted to know more. So I gave him the argument that, which was about if you reject the Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam it's the equivalent of rejecting your own mother. If you want to know more about this argument, you could download my book for free. It's called The Divine Reality.
It's available on the Sapience Institute website, and there is a Turkish version of that book, it's Chapter 14. And I said, if you if you understand this, I'm not telling you to become a Muslim, but at least be consistent. Here's my phone. I think I had a BlackBerry phone at that time. I just almost threw it at him. I said, here's my phone. Call your mother and say that you have to doubt her because now you're not accepting the Prophet (Saw) That's the general gist of that idea. So he basically becomes Muslim because he understood that if I reject the Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam based on what Hamza just told me in the conversation that we had.
It was around an hour or more conversation. I think it was about an hour and a half or something, or at least about an hour. And he realised if I reject this man, Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam it's the equivalent of rejecting my own mother, but I know my mother gave birth to me, but there's far more evidence concerning that the Prophet (Saw) is the final prophet, and he was speaking the truth and he became a Muslim. And he's such a nice guy. He's amazing akhlaq, a very humble person So you got the sign and then. Well, then He helps you, doesn't it? And then you continue. You had a debate with one of the world's most famous atheists, how was the moment for you?
Did you feel excited, angry or fearing that I can't explain Islam, well? There's always a worry that you're not going to do good or you're not going to do great, or you're going to say some things that you shouldn't have said. And that's just part of life. And we make mistakes like it happens to us all the time. And when I prepared for that debate, it was a significant moment because it was, I think, one of the first times that in contemporary era that a muslim had an engagement, intellectual engagement with the atheist, because the new atheist movement was relatively new, it's a post-9-11 phenomenon, if you like. And at that time, you know, new atheism was on the rise.
Now it's almost dead is dying in the West, but it's going to other countries now. Yeah, the new atheism, atheism itself is different from new atheism yeah, there's a there are distinctions to be made. But Professor Krauss was, you know, I think he was being seen as a replacement for Christopher Hitchens because at that time he was quite unwell. And anyway. Was there a successfull debate for you? Yeah, of course. I mean, it's nearly got 5 million views. It still gets lots of views from a views perspective. It's successful, but that doesn't mean anything because views doesn't always mean impact.
My point is it was successful from the point of view that even though I made mistakes after that, I did a master's in philosophy, I did a master's in research in philosophy, and now I'm doing my Ph.D. So obviously I've developed hopefully quite a lot since then. And I do want to one day analyse that debate and maybe fix some of the errors and maybe unpack some of the ideas that I wanted to portray because it wasn't perfect. But nevertheless, the very fact that a Muslim was there with a famous academic who is an atheist, probably a new atheist. The very fact I was there and challenging him, we already won. That's why his strategy, I believe, was just to belittle me.
And people became Muslim because of that debate and people are still watching it. Now, are debates, the best way forward for the da'wah? Debates should be used again in context based on the Maslahah-Mafsadah. Does it increase the benefits? Does it decrease the harms? My debate with Professor Krauss, it was at the right time i think because new atheism was taking hold of the Muslim community. And this actually was, you know, someone trying to defend Islam and show the veracity of Islam. And it worked to a certain degree, right. Alhamdulillah. Have you ever been attacked while giving da'wah? No. You mean physically attacked? Yes. No. Because if that did happen, they would have a Janazah no.
I'm only kidding. No, but there was confrontational moments. I remember many years ago I had a conversation with someone from the extreme right wing and he was trying to belittle Islam and so on and so forth. He came very close to me. I tried to get the best out of him and at the end he hugged me. And I think this is something that we should adopt in the da'wah. It's creating the best version of that person through the conversation. And this is similar, I believe, to the Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam the way he spoke to people who get the best version out of people through how he interacted with them.
For what I remember Khalid bin Walid was butchering the Muslims before he became a Muslim. How did he become a Muslim? I think he wrote a letter, got someone to write a letter to Khalid bin Walid and say, how can a wise person, such a wise person, how can he not become a Muslim? So do you see he's elevating the person, he's getting the best out of the person through his expression to get the best out of that person. And they will give you the best results. And this is a very hard thing to do. You have to be very conscious of it, but it really works. For example, sometimes in a da'wah context someone says, are you allowed to hit your women? Yes or no, yes or no?
Or do you believe you should cut the hand? Yes or no? Yes or no? And they say yes or no, just yes or no. And I'll be like, Listen, my friend, I know you're a sincere person, and I know if I asked you a question about what is your views on abortion, yes or no, yes or no is not going to represent you. So it's not going to represent me. I know you're sincere and I know you here to hear me out and to really engage with me. And I'm really happy you didn't go on Google, but you came to me. And since you're such a sincere guy, I'm telling you, just give me 2 minutes. I'm going to explain this to you and then they become calm. Say, okay, then, no problem.
Because what you've done, you've affirmed that this sincere you've affirmed that they're such a nice person, even though they may have come to you with aggression, even though they may have come to you with harshness. But this is what I spoke about earlier, surah Fusilat chapter fourty one, verse thirty four, good and evil are not the same, repelled by that which is better. And if there's any hatred between two people who return to intimate friendship, so speak to people in confrontational situations in a way that gets the best out of them, even though they don't deserve, even though they're not expressing the best version of themselves.
But the minute you do it, you create that personality in the dynamic of the conversation. And if it doesn't work, then obviously you have every right to protect yourself. But you should try your best. Because remember what I said earlier before, it always links to principles, ask the question, what does Allah want from me from this situation? A specific characteristic, for example, Hamza, that you're giving da'wah you're so angry. No, actually, A common criticizing maybe in the past, but in the past, maybe eight years or five years, I get criticised for being too nice or too soft. Yeah, they say where's the lion? We want the lion back yeah. Now I'm going to be very honest with you.
I feel that if you're always one trait, if you're always aggressive and angry, with all due respect, that is a huge sign of weakness. You could have prayed, read the Qur’an by yourself and move on with your life, with your own life. Why did you choose a path like this? I mean, giving da'wah. I think it was in line with my personality when I loved something, I would talk about it. So it's a natural thing. If you love something, you're going to share it. So naturally, if you love Islam, you would want to share it as well. Look, at the end of the day, I have tasted a very sweet mango. I've tasted this mango. If I'm a good human being, I want other people to taste this mango, right?
I want to share this goodness that I have. And I've had this experience of sweetness, which is Islam. And if the whole world says to me, no, it's not sweet, I'm not going to believe them because they haven't tasted my mango, right? So you have that sense of confidence because I've tasted I want you to taste what I'm tasting. So that's another motivation that you want. Good for people like you. If you if you're a decent human being, you know, you want to be committed to the goodness and guidance of all people. We want people to be happy and this is what makes people happy. Then you need to give it to people. What's wrong with you? Why are you so selfish?
And just just to end on this point, the reward is so huge. Think about this. Imagine one person becomes a muslim because of your work through the will of Allah. One person that person becomes married to this two people now and they have two children. So there's four people now and then they get married and they have two children each within one or two generations, you're getting the reward for ten people the Salah, the Qiyam, the Sadaqa, the Zakat, the recitation of the Qur’an, the Hajj, the Umrah, the good deeds, the Sadaqa, and so on and so forth. You get all of that reward just because by giving da'wah to one person, you open the one or two generations of Muslims.
It's very important for us to, you know, if you think about the reward aspect, there's nothing more rewarding. But it's also, for me, meaningful because you know what you're going to do, you going to read Qur’an and pray and you're going to be at home and then you get married. You have kids, you have a job, you get a house, you get a car, then you die. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to do. You could have a very pious life. Do you have an added meaning to your existence because Allah says in the Qur’an, Oh, you who believe respond to the call of Allah and his messenger to that which gives you life.
This ayah is talking to people who are already alive, so it's as if Allah is giving you life on top of your life. And for me there is a sense of added meaning that you're talking about the truth of Islam. So that would be my answer concerning why I do things like this. If you had the opportunity to watch a moment from time of our Prophet's life, what moment would it be? It's a very difficult question.
I don't know this so many moments, but it's very difficult to ok if you look at the life of the Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam and his daily routine, I think maybe if I wanted to experience his presence (S.A.W) it would probably be at Fajr time, spending time in the masjid praying Fajr Jamat and doing Dhikar and Adhkar and asking him questions. Because that was the moment, right? The Sahab would ask him questions. And you have an indication with this. Sahaba would also be very comfortable and relaxed and they would talk about their Jahiliah and laugh about it. Do you have a specific question that you want to personally ask the Prophet (S.A.W)? A specific question?
I would ask him to make dua for me the dua's of the Prophets (S.A.W) are accepted, right? So just make dua for me, make dua that you know, I'm successful in this life and hereafter and so is my family. What else can you ask for? I mean, think about it, is there anything else you can ask for and it's known that the Prophet (S.A.W) would not say no to requests. What else would you want? I mean. Well, I'm going to ask about, you know, the issues concerning the Ikhtilaf and Aqeedah or a question about this. This is becomes all irrelevant. Yeah, this is yeah. Mean this is all in the grand cosmic scheme of things. You're with the beloved of Allah (SWT). He's the beloved of Allah. Yeah.
I'm going to ask his beloved Habibullah. Please make dua for me and my family. Well, what else is there? Khaalas There's nothing else, right? You have one minute, and the whole world is listening to you right now. Christians, Jews, Atheists What would you like to say to them? Please turn to camera. You have just one minute. All Atheists, Jews, Christians, Muslims, all the people around you, even the people that the Amazons are listening you When you say I'm ready. I'll just start. I Are you getting sweaty? No, I'm trying to think of an answer. It's very difficult for someone like me to put that in one minute. You can't skip this question, you got to give the answer brother. Okay?
We can wait maybe I can say, you know. I put it like this 3, 2, 1 go. Brothers and sisters and friends and humanity. If you want contentment in this life and eternal bliss in the life to come, then say and internalise the following. La Ilaha Illallah Muhammadan Rasulullah There is no deity worthy of worship except Allah. And Muhammad is His messenger is His final messenger. We know Allah is worthy of worship by virtue of who He is. When you study His words, study the Qur’an, you realise the maximally perfect nature of His names and attributes and Allah is worthy of extensive praise and ultimate gratitude because of His names and attributes and praise and gratitude are a form of worship.
When you study the life of the Prophet Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam you come to the conclusion that he wasn't lying or deluded. It's not based on a legend, but rather he was speaking the truth. And if he's speaking the truth, then he is. The final messenger should be followed with regards to our way of life. Study these two things and inshallah, eternal bliss. ‘’Abi’’ (Brother in Turkish) right now. You look like you need a coffee my brotheri I can see in your eyes Lights are on light is on, no is at home Honestly, if you ask me questions, I could be here all day.
He's going to attack me if they attack me, they must be crazy, nah, nah I'm joking astaghfirullah, astaghfirullah I do one more time, one more time and you could choose which one best last one three. So the fourth one, take four that's one, five, five, we will get this right because that was longer than a minute and that was the best one I think. But we need it shorter. Eyvallah I feel sorry for the post-production team. +You are the hardest job ever. - AllahuAkbar