Ex-US Soldier Planned to Bomb a Mosque But Became Muslim!
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I made my plan. I was going to blow up the masjid during Ramadan on Friday. The thoroughly happy kid Had friends... I like to run the streets. In high school. I've gotten a lot of trouble. These Muslims trying to kill me. Everybody hates Muslims that if I see a woman in hijob, or if I see a man wearing sandals and he has dark skin. Don't trust him. Keep an eye on him. And even though I wanted to die, I wanted to hate somebody more. I didn't know if I needed to be closer or I needed, you know, or if I was okay. But I sat over there and the plan was to sit over there and wait dialed it in just watching Assalamu alaikum brother Richard Thank you for accepting our invitation.
As Towards Eternity we are very happy to have you with us. I want to start with who is Richard McKinney? Can you tell us briefly about your life. Waalekum salaam very glad to be here. That's a complicated answer, but quickly. I was born in California. I grew up in Cincinnati, Ohio. Joined the military when I was 18. And, from there, I just I traveled around, had a couple combat tours while I was there. I had, Panama in 1989, Desert Shield and Desert Storm 1991 and 92 and 93. I was in Somalia, and I got out trying to be a civilian for two years. Then I joined the Army, where I eventually retired after I was wounded in Iraq in 2006.
In 2009, I accepted Islam I now attend a mosque in my hometown in central Indiana. Now I just travel around and I speak to people, try to change the narrative. How was your life before Islam? What were you believing in? I grew up with a lot of, Christian teachings, as most American children do. I knew about them, but to be honest with you, I was. I was getting this nationalist ideology about me. Religion just didn't play a part. It seemed too mythological too much hocus pocus, maybe, you know, but I believed in my country. You know, I tell people, for lack of a better example, the flag was my cross. That's that's the best way I can explain that. And then what happened?
Why did you decide to join the military? As a teenager, I got involved in, a lot of bad things, d**ugs. And I ran away from home. When I ran away from home, I ended up going, joining the Marine Corps. And I made a very, I think, very wise decision to get away from all this bad element. I'm going to join the military. How did this great hatred and anger against Muslims develop in you? So one of the things that I, I did start to believe in the way I believe that I guess is better way to say it, that these Muslims trying to kill me.
So the last time I was injured, what forced me out of the military We were in Ramadi in 2006, Ramadi, Iraq, and we did a real quick operation on this building somebody was supposed to be at high ranking, actually was a high ranking al-Qaida member. And, we went there, we were going to grab him and bring him back, you know, hood over the head, zip ties, the whole bit. Well, he wasn't there. Nobody was there. I went up on to the second four after it was cleared, and we were getting ready to leave the building to look out onto the street to make sure everything was okay before I took my team back outside. So the last thing I remember.
There was a huge IED that was underneath the building, and it blew straight up and blew me right out. the hole I was looking out of, I mean, it was a huge hole in the wall facing the street. There was a Bomb!? There was a bomb. And, and from what I was told, it blew me straight across the street. And I have no memory of it. So it's like it's not real difficult for me to to tell the story. I'm just telling what everybody told me because I don't remember, but it messed me up kind of bad. I had some, some injuries that I still have injuries because of it. What happened to you after this incident? What were your thoughts?
There was so many things that were just compounded in your head that this is what all these people are doing. These Muslims are trying to kill me, you know, and even though I wanted to die, I wanted to hate somebody more. And it was easy because at that time, common enemy, everybody hates Muslims. So I'm back home now with all these thoughts, all this anger, and I said ‘’ There's something that I can do.’’ And I devised a plan. I was still able to get a hold of different components that I could create my own bomb. And in the course of three years, that's what I did. I built this thing, the bomb. I took my time. As my planning went on, I was like, well, how am I going to get these guys?
Sometimes not a lot of them show up Ramadan, Ramadan on a Friday afternoon. They're all there. when I talk to, to Christians, a lot of times it's like the Catholics for Christmas mass. You might not see him any other time of the year, but they'll be there in Christmas mass. Where exactly did you want to do it and what was your plan? So there was an Islamic center, in my hometown. I didn't really know anything about these people. I'd seen them. So I'd watch this place before and several different times, not just once. I watched it several different times and saw the flow of people on a Friday. And just knowing the behavior of these people and and what they're doing.
So if I put a bomb here, will they find it? So I don't want that to happen. So I had found a place nobody ever, for some reason, until I became president of the Islamic Center. Nobody walked around that building. Nobody So on the back side, I found a good place for it and I was going to put it there middle of the night. The night before. And there was a bank, I would say probably 2500m away, which this was a roll of the dice, because I wasn't sure, because of the range. I didn't know if I needed to be closer or I any, you know, or if I was okay. But I said over there and the plan was to sit over there and wait for the time because I had found out what time they start this dial it in.
Just watch it Weren't you afraid of the consequences of doing something like that? Weren't you afraid of the consequences of doing something like that? I was going to make a big statement. Now, a lot of people think that's that's crazy on so many different levels, because how are you going to get away with that? I had no intention of getting away with it. I knew I was going to be caught. I knew I would go to trial, because they would execute me. I was good with that because I wasn't getting my flag draped coffin, but I believed that eventually these same people were going to think of me as a hero because I was right. Uhmm..
So then I went to the mosque I already done recon, you know, and found the best place to put this and everything, you know, with the knowledge that I had of explosives, And, my daughter had told me about this Muslim child that she was in school with and I blew up. So I thought I failed my family because I couldn't protect her. I can't protect her at school from these Muslims. That was my whole thing. I just totally lost it. And my daughter, seven years old, is looking at me like. Like I've just lost everything. And she was, the look in her eyes was like.
She was even questioning whether she even loved me anymore because I was being so racist, or so, you know, against these one people, just because they looked a certain way or they did a certain thing, that was it. You know, after after different profanities came out of my mouth and, you know, calling them all kinds of, of racial slurs, I guess is the best way to put it. I went up into my, my bedroom, I kind of sat on the bed and I started to cry a little bit. I said, well, you have to find a proof, man. You know, you're right. I believed in myself. I was right because they're evil. They want to kill us all, right?
And and but I didn't have any kind of tangible proof to, like, show my daughter I didn't have that, so I had to go get it. Where am I going to get it? The mosque, where else... did not want to be in that place So, of course I'm a little nervous. I try to keep my composure. Obviously.
Now, after I found out and heard from some of the people there, that I didn't do a very good job at that because they could tell I was nervous, I was frustrated, and I went in there, I met with them and I introduced myself as somebody just wants to learn a little bit more about Islam, not a total lie, but I didn't tell them what my real intentions were, so, you know, I talked to several, was introduced to several people talked to several people. it was a Friday. Again I went on Friday, Sunday they do not be there I listened to the, the sermon, the hutbah Right. And I was like, ‘’Man, it sounds good.’’ They're just saying that because I'm here.
I already know they probably got people held down in the basement for propaganda videos. I already know. I mean, these are the things that are going through my mind, right? And then they handed me a Qur’an and I was told to take it home, read it, come back when you have questions. I was so happy because in my mind, I felt like I'd just been handed the Holy Grail of evil. And I'm going to have somebody explaining to me, wow, that's better than hitting the lottery. I mean, isn't it? Take no effort on my part. So I did. I did just that. I read it and I went back. I was back a lot surprised them because here's this non-Muslim coming in. He's all in there all the time.
I've been reading, I've been reading. I got this questions. You said come back and ask you. And after a while, it finally came to me that all religions have some sort of a text and a text is a guidebook to how they're supposed to live their lives, right? To direct them in the certain direction. Right? And, you have to live as close that as you can. So I'm reading the things in the Qur’an, and my impression of Islam is the people that have been shooting at me, and it's seeing all the horrible things that they were doing, right? It didn't match. But these people in here in Muncie, Indiana, were actually I could make examples of things that they were doing that was in the Qur’an to do...
So, they are and they aren't never been caught an intellectual person. But a light bulb came on. Obviously the one who I had gotten my impression of Islam from were a bad example. That's not Islam. This is more like Islam. So I started to change a little bit, but then I went through stages. Maybe these are the good Muslims I've heard there's some good Muslims. Maybe these are the ones, maybe these are the good ones. And as I'm getting introduced to other, other Muslims and doing research and looking online and watching both good and bad YouTube videos, because back then they still had the real bad ones.
And watching this and comparing it with what's in the scripture here all those bad videos, they come from a place I hate. there's no relevance to what is in the book and what they're saying. There's no relevance. Oh man. So I just kept reading and kept reading. My ill feelings started to slowly just dissipate. They just went away. And, you know, I get to certain passages in the Qur’an, you know, like, 5:32, you know, ‘’killing one human being is, as if you had killed all of humanity. No... Indiscriminate... killing, what was going on by these people that I had taken my impression of Islam. Wow. Okay. Keep reading, keep reading. And then, you know, get to certain other passages.
You know, ‘’Allah made us into different nations and tribes. So we may learn from one another, not despise one another.’’ Oh, okay. I can see that right here, because this person is involved with local government and Rotary Club and all these other organizations. Oh, okay, I get that. So it started to all go this way. So what was the main thing that convinced you that Islam is 100% is truth? So so I realized that Islam was really the thing for me through through my readings, of the Qur’an and the explanations I got. And I didn't take their word for it. And when they would tell me that's what this means, I would go back and I would research it.
So reading the Qur’an and, and and having the feeling that it is touching me, it is, it is I'm reading these words, but I'm feeling them too. So when did you actually say ‘’I have to become a muslim’’? The dreams I had with the blood on the on the paper target. I was on the rifle range. You know where you practice shooting. Okay. And I was shooting a paper target way down there. And it had been a, a source of, of looking at my enemies, dehumanization, right? I was dehumanizing my enemies because they were just targets. That was one way of coping with the whole taking of human life. Right. And I remember one of the last dreams I had was this paper target started bleeding.
I went down and wiped it off. It kept bleeding and kept bleeding and bleeding. And it was at that point I decided I need to be a muslim, because now I see my humanity is coming back. I didn't have humanity for a long time. I didn't even know what it was. it came back and I saw Islam and the teachings from Allah and the examples given by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) It gives me something. It gives me an understanding of who, what, when, where and why. It answered those questions for me, man. And I couldn't have been happier. It was it was the best decision I've made as an adult. And then you decided to take Shahada. And where did you go first? So this is a funny story.
So this whole, this whole picture of a lot of Christians, throughout the years, have had this belief that, you know, if Muslims capture you, you're going to hold a sword to your throat and tell you to convert or they're going to kill you. Right? I go back to the Islamic Center on a Friday and, I meet two guys to the original guys that I was introduced to. But I've gotten kind of build a relationship with them. And I went up to them. I said, hey, I want to take Shahada True story. They're standing, side by side, they look at each other. They look back at me, simultaneously. They go ‘’No’’ True story. Oh my gosh. And I was blown away. I was like, what do you mean ‘’No’’?
He said ‘’ Brother, you got more to learn.’’ So they look back at each other and back to me. All right. Come on. True story. and it was quite an experience as we were going through it, you know, said it, said it in English. And then we went through and said it in Arabic. And as I'm reciting it in Arabic as best I can because, you know, I, I have like less than an elementary education in Arabic and I just felt like this huge weight, man God lifted off of me. I just, I stood there, I just held up my hands, man. I was like, oh, I, I don't really know how to explain it. It was just, it was renewal. I got a new life now. Wow. Did you tell them that you were going to blow up that place?
That happened by a third party? So I went to college. later in life, I already spent all this time like 40 some odd years old, and I'm a freshman in college, okay? Being older and having all this life experience that I had, I had a different relationship with my professors than, say, the 20 something students. Right? We were actually more friends than we were professor and student. And I was sitting in one of my professors offices one afternoon. We were drinking coffee, and I don't know why it even came up, I told the professor the story, and she just stood there and she was blown away. She was like, whoa. She goes, you need to tell that story. That could change people's lives.
I'm like, really? She goes, what are you doing this afternoon? I said, well,I finish this coffee. I was going to go home Said , ‘’No, no, no, you got my next class.’’ ‘’You're going to tell that story.’’ So I did. Well, somebody in the class decided, ‘’Wait a minute, this guy knows how to make a bomb, and now he's a muslim.’’ ‘’Oh, no, no, no, we need to call somebody.’’ So he did. He called the FBI, all right, called the FBI. Yeah, I'm not upset about at all, but this is after the fact that the bomb is gone. I'd already disposed of it. Right. Because contrary to popular belief, I am a muslim, and I don't need a bomb. Okay, so there's no evidence, really, right?
They did find trace evidence, actually, from a bomb dog that there had been an explosive there. That that was it because I took him to where I had it stored after that happened, then everybody started to find out. matter of fact, that's when my wife found out. I didn't tell anybody about this. I was the only one that knew anything about it. Because this is going to be all me. Pure ego. I'm doing this. Nobody else. Plus, I knew more people knew greater the chance of me not being able to carry this out. So she found out I was handcuffed and sitting on the front lawn of my house. When her and my daughter pull up, they, drove up to the house.
I'm sitting there and in the front yard, so the handcuff me to basically have control. It's procedure. it's kind of wrong in a way, because legally, you are under arrest. Once handcuffs go, they tell you you're not, but you really are legally. Just so they have you controlled if something was to happen. That's when my wife and my daughter pull up in the car. They get out they and they don’t know what to think. And then people at the mosque started find it out. They started hearing stories. Plus it was in the newspaper. So then I was confronted. I was invited to dinner at one of the, founding Families houses, and there was other Muslims there, and I was just happy to be there.
And all of a sudden, you know, and then Bibi Bahrami is the one who asked me. She goes, ‘’Brother Richard, what is this we hear about you were going to blow up the Islamic Center.’’ I was so ashamed at that point because these people were taking me in. They had no reason to. Knowing I was a soldier knowing I had been to countries they come from. So they knew some of the things that I had done, but they took me in anyway. They accepted me, right? And I just sat there and I told them. I told them all the truth. So this is what I was going to do.
And I looked at all of them and said, ‘’It's because of you that I didn’t.’’ You showed me, You know, I even told her, I said, let's put Islam aside for a second. Y'all showed me what humanity was and that saved all our lives. They were shocked, but happy. Couple of the brothers came up and hugged me and stuff like, you know, and which I was still getting used to because I didn't like the whole hugging thing. I just so I'm like, whoa dude, distance, man, distance... but, you know, it was kind of surreal. This just put in, like, nailed it. This is why I'm doing this. These people care, man. They care. They care because that's the way they were raised.
Because they were raised by teachings in the Qur’an. How was your family affected by your conversion to Islam and what was the reaction? there's actually a funny story to that, because after I took Shahada, again, I'm still not telling my wife nothing, right? She knows I'm going to the mosque, but she doesn't know what to think now. And so I go there and I take Shahada, I come home and I just plop down on the couch, kind of like, you know, oh, I just get back from work, you know, something like that, right? And, she goes, so is everything okay? Because she's worried that I'm going to do something right? She has no idea.
And I said, ‘’No, everything's great.’’ She goes, ‘’okay, okay.’’ I looked at her and says, ‘’I am a Muslim’’ This is another true story. Funny, but it's very true. So she said. She said ‘’What?’’ I said, ‘’Yeah, I took Shahada’’ She goes, ‘’You Sha... What? And and so mine infant knowledge of Islam, right? I, I try to explain it to her best way I could. Right. Using examples of like baptism. Okay. And she's like, she didn't know what to think. She stood there and she said, well, I'm gonna tell you something right now. I'm not putting anything around my head. All right, well, you're not a muslim, so I didn't even think that was a conversation. It's all right.
And then she comes back in a little while and says, and another thing, if you want more than one wife, I'm not going to be one of them. And I was like, I'm thinking to myself, like, man, I'm not sure I want this one. So she take Shahada, we were leaving the university. I'm still kind of blown away, but I like to joke. I like to joke. So I looked at her and I said, you know, I was driving and I look at her and I said, so you're Muslim now about that more than one wife thing. She looked over at me with this mean look on her face and said, don't make me pull this car over. I said, I'm driving. Are you gonna pull the car? I'm driving. She said, I'll pull it over. So I was like, ah cool.
Matter of fact, Doctor Sabeel is the one who gave her Shahada. Yes. He was visiting Muncie. He gave a lecture at the university there, and my wife and daughter went with me. And I guess there was questions that she she needed answers to that I couldn't answer. And that night he answered it. So they both took Shahada I was like, blown away. When you look back at your journey of transformation, what do you think about it? I hated myself because of all the stuff that I'd done. On the outside, acting like everything I'd done was for the right reasons, but deep down inside, I knew it wasn't. I really knew that. I would never have admitted it, but I knew it, and it was. It was eating me up.
It was, you know, I was definitely a prime candidate for suicide at that time. In the documentary ‘’Stranger at the gate’’, there's a photo of these guys in black uniforms, stuff all over face, whatever. That was my team. I am the one still alive in that team. So everyone in that team had gotten out of military, and they committed suicide. And I felt that way for so long. And like I said, I went back into the military. I got out for two years and went right back into the military because there wasn't anything here. And I would've ended up just like those guys. And this is again, I have to,you know, this is all Allah working. This is all Allah work. When I first became a muslim, I did.
I asked that question, why did you make me go through all that? Why? You could have just took me to a bookstore and found a copy of the Qur’an and started reading anything, right? Why did I have to do all that? And, you know, of course, that's one of those... None of your business kind of things, right. But I finally come to the understanding that because of who I was mentally, I was such this, in your face kind of guy, I had to go through all of that to be where I am right now, because... It wouldn't have stayed with me. You know, because now I have another mission, you know, now I have, I do have a destiny. I have a purpose now. And I and I feel like I understand that.
Lastly, if there was a chance to speak to all the non-Muslims in the world, what would you like to say to them if you had a few moments? So, I've thought about this for a long time, actually what would I say if I was ever confronted by non-Muslims like wanting answers? Let’s say, first thing. Take a breath. -Take a breath. These feelings you have aren't real. Take a breath. Read the Qur’an, just read it. Even if you do not become a muslim, you will gain wisdom from the words in the Qur’an because that's the way the book works.
As Towards Eternity we are very happy to have you with us. I want to start with who is Richard McKinney? Can you tell us briefly about your life. Waalekum salaam very glad to be here. That's a complicated answer, but quickly. I was born in California. I grew up in Cincinnati, Ohio. Joined the military when I was 18. And, from there, I just I traveled around, had a couple combat tours while I was there. I had, Panama in 1989, Desert Shield and Desert Storm 1991 and 92 and 93. I was in Somalia, and I got out trying to be a civilian for two years. Then I joined the Army, where I eventually retired after I was wounded in Iraq in 2006.
In 2009, I accepted Islam I now attend a mosque in my hometown in central Indiana. Now I just travel around and I speak to people, try to change the narrative. How was your life before Islam? What were you believing in? I grew up with a lot of, Christian teachings, as most American children do. I knew about them, but to be honest with you, I was. I was getting this nationalist ideology about me. Religion just didn't play a part. It seemed too mythological too much hocus pocus, maybe, you know, but I believed in my country. You know, I tell people, for lack of a better example, the flag was my cross. That's that's the best way I can explain that. And then what happened?
Why did you decide to join the military? As a teenager, I got involved in, a lot of bad things, d**ugs. And I ran away from home. When I ran away from home, I ended up going, joining the Marine Corps. And I made a very, I think, very wise decision to get away from all this bad element. I'm going to join the military. How did this great hatred and anger against Muslims develop in you? So one of the things that I, I did start to believe in the way I believe that I guess is better way to say it, that these Muslims trying to kill me.
So the last time I was injured, what forced me out of the military We were in Ramadi in 2006, Ramadi, Iraq, and we did a real quick operation on this building somebody was supposed to be at high ranking, actually was a high ranking al-Qaida member. And, we went there, we were going to grab him and bring him back, you know, hood over the head, zip ties, the whole bit. Well, he wasn't there. Nobody was there. I went up on to the second four after it was cleared, and we were getting ready to leave the building to look out onto the street to make sure everything was okay before I took my team back outside. So the last thing I remember.
There was a huge IED that was underneath the building, and it blew straight up and blew me right out. the hole I was looking out of, I mean, it was a huge hole in the wall facing the street. There was a Bomb!? There was a bomb. And, and from what I was told, it blew me straight across the street. And I have no memory of it. So it's like it's not real difficult for me to to tell the story. I'm just telling what everybody told me because I don't remember, but it messed me up kind of bad. I had some, some injuries that I still have injuries because of it. What happened to you after this incident? What were your thoughts?
There was so many things that were just compounded in your head that this is what all these people are doing. These Muslims are trying to kill me, you know, and even though I wanted to die, I wanted to hate somebody more. And it was easy because at that time, common enemy, everybody hates Muslims. So I'm back home now with all these thoughts, all this anger, and I said ‘’ There's something that I can do.’’ And I devised a plan. I was still able to get a hold of different components that I could create my own bomb. And in the course of three years, that's what I did. I built this thing, the bomb. I took my time. As my planning went on, I was like, well, how am I going to get these guys?
Sometimes not a lot of them show up Ramadan, Ramadan on a Friday afternoon. They're all there. when I talk to, to Christians, a lot of times it's like the Catholics for Christmas mass. You might not see him any other time of the year, but they'll be there in Christmas mass. Where exactly did you want to do it and what was your plan? So there was an Islamic center, in my hometown. I didn't really know anything about these people. I'd seen them. So I'd watch this place before and several different times, not just once. I watched it several different times and saw the flow of people on a Friday. And just knowing the behavior of these people and and what they're doing.
So if I put a bomb here, will they find it? So I don't want that to happen. So I had found a place nobody ever, for some reason, until I became president of the Islamic Center. Nobody walked around that building. Nobody So on the back side, I found a good place for it and I was going to put it there middle of the night. The night before. And there was a bank, I would say probably 2500m away, which this was a roll of the dice, because I wasn't sure, because of the range. I didn't know if I needed to be closer or I any, you know, or if I was okay. But I said over there and the plan was to sit over there and wait for the time because I had found out what time they start this dial it in.
Just watch it Weren't you afraid of the consequences of doing something like that? Weren't you afraid of the consequences of doing something like that? I was going to make a big statement. Now, a lot of people think that's that's crazy on so many different levels, because how are you going to get away with that? I had no intention of getting away with it. I knew I was going to be caught. I knew I would go to trial, because they would execute me. I was good with that because I wasn't getting my flag draped coffin, but I believed that eventually these same people were going to think of me as a hero because I was right. Uhmm..
So then I went to the mosque I already done recon, you know, and found the best place to put this and everything, you know, with the knowledge that I had of explosives, And, my daughter had told me about this Muslim child that she was in school with and I blew up. So I thought I failed my family because I couldn't protect her. I can't protect her at school from these Muslims. That was my whole thing. I just totally lost it. And my daughter, seven years old, is looking at me like. Like I've just lost everything. And she was, the look in her eyes was like.
She was even questioning whether she even loved me anymore because I was being so racist, or so, you know, against these one people, just because they looked a certain way or they did a certain thing, that was it. You know, after after different profanities came out of my mouth and, you know, calling them all kinds of, of racial slurs, I guess is the best way to put it. I went up into my, my bedroom, I kind of sat on the bed and I started to cry a little bit. I said, well, you have to find a proof, man. You know, you're right. I believed in myself. I was right because they're evil. They want to kill us all, right?
And and but I didn't have any kind of tangible proof to, like, show my daughter I didn't have that, so I had to go get it. Where am I going to get it? The mosque, where else... did not want to be in that place So, of course I'm a little nervous. I try to keep my composure. Obviously.
Now, after I found out and heard from some of the people there, that I didn't do a very good job at that because they could tell I was nervous, I was frustrated, and I went in there, I met with them and I introduced myself as somebody just wants to learn a little bit more about Islam, not a total lie, but I didn't tell them what my real intentions were, so, you know, I talked to several, was introduced to several people talked to several people. it was a Friday. Again I went on Friday, Sunday they do not be there I listened to the, the sermon, the hutbah Right. And I was like, ‘’Man, it sounds good.’’ They're just saying that because I'm here.
I already know they probably got people held down in the basement for propaganda videos. I already know. I mean, these are the things that are going through my mind, right? And then they handed me a Qur’an and I was told to take it home, read it, come back when you have questions. I was so happy because in my mind, I felt like I'd just been handed the Holy Grail of evil. And I'm going to have somebody explaining to me, wow, that's better than hitting the lottery. I mean, isn't it? Take no effort on my part. So I did. I did just that. I read it and I went back. I was back a lot surprised them because here's this non-Muslim coming in. He's all in there all the time.
I've been reading, I've been reading. I got this questions. You said come back and ask you. And after a while, it finally came to me that all religions have some sort of a text and a text is a guidebook to how they're supposed to live their lives, right? To direct them in the certain direction. Right? And, you have to live as close that as you can. So I'm reading the things in the Qur’an, and my impression of Islam is the people that have been shooting at me, and it's seeing all the horrible things that they were doing, right? It didn't match. But these people in here in Muncie, Indiana, were actually I could make examples of things that they were doing that was in the Qur’an to do...
So, they are and they aren't never been caught an intellectual person. But a light bulb came on. Obviously the one who I had gotten my impression of Islam from were a bad example. That's not Islam. This is more like Islam. So I started to change a little bit, but then I went through stages. Maybe these are the good Muslims I've heard there's some good Muslims. Maybe these are the ones, maybe these are the good ones. And as I'm getting introduced to other, other Muslims and doing research and looking online and watching both good and bad YouTube videos, because back then they still had the real bad ones.
And watching this and comparing it with what's in the scripture here all those bad videos, they come from a place I hate. there's no relevance to what is in the book and what they're saying. There's no relevance. Oh man. So I just kept reading and kept reading. My ill feelings started to slowly just dissipate. They just went away. And, you know, I get to certain passages in the Qur’an, you know, like, 5:32, you know, ‘’killing one human being is, as if you had killed all of humanity. No... Indiscriminate... killing, what was going on by these people that I had taken my impression of Islam. Wow. Okay. Keep reading, keep reading. And then, you know, get to certain other passages.
You know, ‘’Allah made us into different nations and tribes. So we may learn from one another, not despise one another.’’ Oh, okay. I can see that right here, because this person is involved with local government and Rotary Club and all these other organizations. Oh, okay, I get that. So it started to all go this way. So what was the main thing that convinced you that Islam is 100% is truth? So so I realized that Islam was really the thing for me through through my readings, of the Qur’an and the explanations I got. And I didn't take their word for it. And when they would tell me that's what this means, I would go back and I would research it.
So reading the Qur’an and, and and having the feeling that it is touching me, it is, it is I'm reading these words, but I'm feeling them too. So when did you actually say ‘’I have to become a muslim’’? The dreams I had with the blood on the on the paper target. I was on the rifle range. You know where you practice shooting. Okay. And I was shooting a paper target way down there. And it had been a, a source of, of looking at my enemies, dehumanization, right? I was dehumanizing my enemies because they were just targets. That was one way of coping with the whole taking of human life. Right. And I remember one of the last dreams I had was this paper target started bleeding.
I went down and wiped it off. It kept bleeding and kept bleeding and bleeding. And it was at that point I decided I need to be a muslim, because now I see my humanity is coming back. I didn't have humanity for a long time. I didn't even know what it was. it came back and I saw Islam and the teachings from Allah and the examples given by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) It gives me something. It gives me an understanding of who, what, when, where and why. It answered those questions for me, man. And I couldn't have been happier. It was it was the best decision I've made as an adult. And then you decided to take Shahada. And where did you go first? So this is a funny story.
So this whole, this whole picture of a lot of Christians, throughout the years, have had this belief that, you know, if Muslims capture you, you're going to hold a sword to your throat and tell you to convert or they're going to kill you. Right? I go back to the Islamic Center on a Friday and, I meet two guys to the original guys that I was introduced to. But I've gotten kind of build a relationship with them. And I went up to them. I said, hey, I want to take Shahada True story. They're standing, side by side, they look at each other. They look back at me, simultaneously. They go ‘’No’’ True story. Oh my gosh. And I was blown away. I was like, what do you mean ‘’No’’?
He said ‘’ Brother, you got more to learn.’’ So they look back at each other and back to me. All right. Come on. True story. and it was quite an experience as we were going through it, you know, said it, said it in English. And then we went through and said it in Arabic. And as I'm reciting it in Arabic as best I can because, you know, I, I have like less than an elementary education in Arabic and I just felt like this huge weight, man God lifted off of me. I just, I stood there, I just held up my hands, man. I was like, oh, I, I don't really know how to explain it. It was just, it was renewal. I got a new life now. Wow. Did you tell them that you were going to blow up that place?
That happened by a third party? So I went to college. later in life, I already spent all this time like 40 some odd years old, and I'm a freshman in college, okay? Being older and having all this life experience that I had, I had a different relationship with my professors than, say, the 20 something students. Right? We were actually more friends than we were professor and student. And I was sitting in one of my professors offices one afternoon. We were drinking coffee, and I don't know why it even came up, I told the professor the story, and she just stood there and she was blown away. She was like, whoa. She goes, you need to tell that story. That could change people's lives.
I'm like, really? She goes, what are you doing this afternoon? I said, well,I finish this coffee. I was going to go home Said , ‘’No, no, no, you got my next class.’’ ‘’You're going to tell that story.’’ So I did. Well, somebody in the class decided, ‘’Wait a minute, this guy knows how to make a bomb, and now he's a muslim.’’ ‘’Oh, no, no, no, we need to call somebody.’’ So he did. He called the FBI, all right, called the FBI. Yeah, I'm not upset about at all, but this is after the fact that the bomb is gone. I'd already disposed of it. Right. Because contrary to popular belief, I am a muslim, and I don't need a bomb. Okay, so there's no evidence, really, right?
They did find trace evidence, actually, from a bomb dog that there had been an explosive there. That that was it because I took him to where I had it stored after that happened, then everybody started to find out. matter of fact, that's when my wife found out. I didn't tell anybody about this. I was the only one that knew anything about it. Because this is going to be all me. Pure ego. I'm doing this. Nobody else. Plus, I knew more people knew greater the chance of me not being able to carry this out. So she found out I was handcuffed and sitting on the front lawn of my house. When her and my daughter pull up, they, drove up to the house.
I'm sitting there and in the front yard, so the handcuff me to basically have control. It's procedure. it's kind of wrong in a way, because legally, you are under arrest. Once handcuffs go, they tell you you're not, but you really are legally. Just so they have you controlled if something was to happen. That's when my wife and my daughter pull up in the car. They get out they and they don’t know what to think. And then people at the mosque started find it out. They started hearing stories. Plus it was in the newspaper. So then I was confronted. I was invited to dinner at one of the, founding Families houses, and there was other Muslims there, and I was just happy to be there.
And all of a sudden, you know, and then Bibi Bahrami is the one who asked me. She goes, ‘’Brother Richard, what is this we hear about you were going to blow up the Islamic Center.’’ I was so ashamed at that point because these people were taking me in. They had no reason to. Knowing I was a soldier knowing I had been to countries they come from. So they knew some of the things that I had done, but they took me in anyway. They accepted me, right? And I just sat there and I told them. I told them all the truth. So this is what I was going to do.
And I looked at all of them and said, ‘’It's because of you that I didn’t.’’ You showed me, You know, I even told her, I said, let's put Islam aside for a second. Y'all showed me what humanity was and that saved all our lives. They were shocked, but happy. Couple of the brothers came up and hugged me and stuff like, you know, and which I was still getting used to because I didn't like the whole hugging thing. I just so I'm like, whoa dude, distance, man, distance... but, you know, it was kind of surreal. This just put in, like, nailed it. This is why I'm doing this. These people care, man. They care. They care because that's the way they were raised.
Because they were raised by teachings in the Qur’an. How was your family affected by your conversion to Islam and what was the reaction? there's actually a funny story to that, because after I took Shahada, again, I'm still not telling my wife nothing, right? She knows I'm going to the mosque, but she doesn't know what to think now. And so I go there and I take Shahada, I come home and I just plop down on the couch, kind of like, you know, oh, I just get back from work, you know, something like that, right? And, she goes, so is everything okay? Because she's worried that I'm going to do something right? She has no idea.
And I said, ‘’No, everything's great.’’ She goes, ‘’okay, okay.’’ I looked at her and says, ‘’I am a Muslim’’ This is another true story. Funny, but it's very true. So she said. She said ‘’What?’’ I said, ‘’Yeah, I took Shahada’’ She goes, ‘’You Sha... What? And and so mine infant knowledge of Islam, right? I, I try to explain it to her best way I could. Right. Using examples of like baptism. Okay. And she's like, she didn't know what to think. She stood there and she said, well, I'm gonna tell you something right now. I'm not putting anything around my head. All right, well, you're not a muslim, so I didn't even think that was a conversation. It's all right.
And then she comes back in a little while and says, and another thing, if you want more than one wife, I'm not going to be one of them. And I was like, I'm thinking to myself, like, man, I'm not sure I want this one. So she take Shahada, we were leaving the university. I'm still kind of blown away, but I like to joke. I like to joke. So I looked at her and I said, you know, I was driving and I look at her and I said, so you're Muslim now about that more than one wife thing. She looked over at me with this mean look on her face and said, don't make me pull this car over. I said, I'm driving. Are you gonna pull the car? I'm driving. She said, I'll pull it over. So I was like, ah cool.
Matter of fact, Doctor Sabeel is the one who gave her Shahada. Yes. He was visiting Muncie. He gave a lecture at the university there, and my wife and daughter went with me. And I guess there was questions that she she needed answers to that I couldn't answer. And that night he answered it. So they both took Shahada I was like, blown away. When you look back at your journey of transformation, what do you think about it? I hated myself because of all the stuff that I'd done. On the outside, acting like everything I'd done was for the right reasons, but deep down inside, I knew it wasn't. I really knew that. I would never have admitted it, but I knew it, and it was. It was eating me up.
It was, you know, I was definitely a prime candidate for suicide at that time. In the documentary ‘’Stranger at the gate’’, there's a photo of these guys in black uniforms, stuff all over face, whatever. That was my team. I am the one still alive in that team. So everyone in that team had gotten out of military, and they committed suicide. And I felt that way for so long. And like I said, I went back into the military. I got out for two years and went right back into the military because there wasn't anything here. And I would've ended up just like those guys. And this is again, I have to,you know, this is all Allah working. This is all Allah work. When I first became a muslim, I did.
I asked that question, why did you make me go through all that? Why? You could have just took me to a bookstore and found a copy of the Qur’an and started reading anything, right? Why did I have to do all that? And, you know, of course, that's one of those... None of your business kind of things, right. But I finally come to the understanding that because of who I was mentally, I was such this, in your face kind of guy, I had to go through all of that to be where I am right now, because... It wouldn't have stayed with me. You know, because now I have another mission, you know, now I have, I do have a destiny. I have a purpose now. And I and I feel like I understand that.
Lastly, if there was a chance to speak to all the non-Muslims in the world, what would you like to say to them if you had a few moments? So, I've thought about this for a long time, actually what would I say if I was ever confronted by non-Muslims like wanting answers? Let’s say, first thing. Take a breath. -Take a breath. These feelings you have aren't real. Take a breath. Read the Qur’an, just read it. Even if you do not become a muslim, you will gain wisdom from the words in the Qur’an because that's the way the book works.