Canadian Atheist Converts to Islam - ”I Thought God Was For Weak People"
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I grew up in Western Canada in the mountains. No religion in our household. God was for weak people who needed a crutch to get by in life. You know, my brother-in-law committed suicide. I lost my sister to a fentanyl overdose. One of the nights in particular, my friend comes and he is covered in blood. He got stabbed all over the place. Then I started to realize that, where am I going to end up? And the Adhan (call to prayer) was called, and I am not kidding, like tears just started to come. I did not understand obviously what it meant, and it just hit my heart. It was a group of brothers that had come from all over the world. They are coming together to pray.
And when I saw this unity, and not based on color, and I was just fascinated. So, the first time I walked into the building, I saw her, and she was the first Muslim that I had ever met. It was meeting her, and then it just flipped my whole understanding upside down. We say that, you know, the Lord works in mysterious ways; this is one of those times. One day, she wrote me a letter, and she said I would be honored if you would marry my daughter. Assalamu Alaikum (Peace be upon you) Brother Will Saleh, thank you so much for accepting our invitation. As Towards Eternity, we are very happy to have you with us. I want to first ask, who is Will Saleh?
Can you tell us briefly about your life, please? Wa alaykumu as-salam (And unto you peace), Alhamdulillah (Praise be to God), thank you so much for inviting me. I have been very much looking forward to it. So, in brief, I grew up in Western Canada in the mountains, and as we grew up, no religion in our household. In fact, it was more of an "atheist" kind of family where we did not believe in God; it was, God was for weak people who needed a crutch to get by in life. That was kind of my upbringing about religion. When I was really little, the only thing that there was to do certain times was the community had a Jehovah's Witness, which is a denomination of Christianity, a Kingdom Hall.
Everybody kind of went. My dad is a, you know, a biker from back in the day, big beard, tattoos. So, when you meet people, you know people, so we would end up going there once in a while. And for me, it was an opportunity to dress up as a kid with a suit on and a little tie. But that was really it. That was the only time we had ever been to church, and it wasn't because we were looking for God as a family; it was because there was nothing else to do. I had never heard about Islam. I had never heard about Muslims until I was in high school. It was 9/11, was the first time I ever heard about Muslims.
And for my entire high school years, we had the "war on terror" in the Middle East, and that was the main indoctrination, I would say, about my understanding of Islam. When you grow up in that environment, you do deal with a lot of prejudice, racism, and all of these sorts of things. And then from that point, you know, it is a very long journey of exploration and traveling around the world and coming to understand faith. And then later into my early 20s, I actually discovered Islam. Like in my early high school years, probably around 2003, the hard drugs really hit our town, and it just devastated our town.
There are so many instances in my life of people that died because of drugs, that were stabbed and killed, prison, and just all of these things that are just so destructive. You know, when I was 17, I went to work in Vancouver, and I went on a Friday night to the East Side, East End of Vancouver, and I was shocked because this is, I think it is the heroin capital of the world, is this very small portion of Hastings and Main in Vancouver. You know, I have many friends that have died from drug overdoses, have destroyed their lives.
One of my friends growing up, I actually heard about this a couple of years ago since I had moved, but he just had a bath, but he was intoxicated, and he drowned in the bathtub. New baby, young, I mean like two years, maybe two years older than me. As discussing earlier with you, one of my closest friends, in and out of jail, killed somebody. And these things are not unique, unfortunately. You know, my brother-in-law committed suicide. I lost my sister to a fentanyl overdose a few years back. -Your sister? -My sister, yeah. One of the biggest problems is that you might not question God's existence, but you certainly will question when you look around and you see.
I remember one instance, they have an annual baseball tournament, and there is a rave on the campground and it is all parties, everybody is drinking. And like one of the nights in particular, I just came from one group, we were hanging out, and the next group, and then my friend comes and he is covered in blood. He got stabbed all over the place. Just soaked in blood. And I am like, "What is going on here?" Going to another friend, same thing, he is sliced up. It is really hard to look at those things and not think, "This is not going to end well." Then I started to realize that for me, where am I going to end up? Like what is my story going to look like?
So I made it a point that I said, you know what? Okay, I want to get married. I do not know how, I do not know who, I do not know where, but I have to change myself. When I made that decision, I gave up all the bad stuff that I was doing and just cold turkey, I just walked away from that whole life. How did your journey to Islam start? So, it started when I had decided I want to get married and I have to change my ways, and I moved to a new town. I was just applying for jobs, and I walked past Future Shop, it was called, an electronics store.
And I thought, "Ah, whatever, let's just try." And eventually, after three months, I hired as a seasonal employee, I met my wife, who would later become my wife. And she was the first Muslim that I had ever met. It was meeting her, and then it just flipped my whole understanding upside down. Right? Because the conversation started with, she said, "I am a Muslim." And I am like, "Okay, what is that?" And then so she said XYZ. And I am like, "But I believe ABC about these people." And she said, "No, no, you are totally wrong." And that is where the first confrontation came about my understanding of Islam to someone who is an actual Muslim.
You know, her father was the head of the Muslim Association there in the town that I moved to. And that is really what triggered it because I do not like to think of myself as an ignorant person or when you bring me facts that I have to argue with you to try to refute the facts even though it is the truth. So that is really what sparked my journey in the very beginning about trying to understand this Western media propaganda machine that has been indoctrinating me since 2001. So that is a lot of years of just constant bombardment, you know, and that is everything that has happened in Palestine at those times, in Iraq, and Afghanistan, and in general.
And so it was just like, I believe this, or at least I was told this, taught this, indoctrinated with this, and this person who has firsthand experience of being that is telling me I am totally wrong. So that is where the journey really kind of started. During that initial conversation, we talked for like three hours. I was fascinated with, you know, she had never been to a party, she had never smoked a cigarette, she had never drank alcohol, she never had a boyfriend. Like all of these things, these concepts were so foreign to me. And I am like, "How is this possible?" And she just said, "That is my faith.
That is how I was raised and culture and faith," you know, the Muslim culture and the Muslim faith. And I was fascinated. Like, I am seeing this firsthand, and for me, I was like, "That is it. That is the girl. That is the one." Like, that night. We had that conversation, and then once I started to look into that got a little bit muddy with everything trying to understand; it was very difficult. And I got a DVD, I am not sure if you are familiar, but Sheikh Khalid Yasin from the States, "The Purpose of Life." That lecture changed my life.
I listened to it on repeat, and I was just fascinated that he is literally, as I have briefly discussed, answering and giving a blueprint for the solution to all of the problems that we all complain about here in the West that there is no solution to. He is literally giving you the blueprint. But in the beginning, he said something that was so indelible in my mind, and that is that it is like a glass of water. Your heart is a receptacle like a glass of water. If you turn that glass over, it does not matter how much water you pour; you are never going to fill it up. But once you, once you yourself open up, then you can fill it.
What was the thing that made you say that, "Okay, I am going to be Muslim, that is it, I am just taking this step now"? So what made you say that final leap? It was, I think, the realization that this book is unchanged. But it has all of those answers. You remember I had said that I believe that if God was real, He would not leave us without instruction. And it was once I understood the Quran as being a book that is unchanged, then it really kind of hit me that, you know, these other religious books— and I have studied a bit in different religions— and when you look at the Quran itself, like take the book, throw it away. It does not literally does not matter.
You can have it replicated in a day, word for word, exactly the same, same dialect as it was 1400 years ago through the oral transmission. Then it was, it was really an important factor for me. And then I was like, okay, there is no way I can, you know... How was your Shahada (testimony of faith) moment? Can you tell us how you felt? It was intimidating. So, after the brothers had finished the Salah (prayer), you know, they said, actually we went inside, and there was probably like 30 people. So I am sitting there, right, I am a 22, 23-year-old guy. It is like 30 people sitting there just like looking at me.
I'm like, "This is weird." And the Imam (leader) asked me, he said, "Do you have any questions that we can help you with?" And after witnessing that, you know, I said, "I have so many questions." I was like, "But I know that this is what I am meant to be, I am meant to do is this." And I took my Shahada right there in front of my future father-in-law, my future brothers-in-law, and a future community that I would stand in front of and lead for the prayer. It was emotional. Like so many things flying through my mind, right? Like my family, what are they going to think? As an atheistic approach that hated religion and indoctrinated, you know, worse than myself. But it didn't matter.
Honestly, you know, as you start to see, as you learn, the struggles of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam (peace be upon him) and his life and everything that he had to go through. We all have struggles. We all have difficulties and hardships and trials. And then a couple of years went by where I was really kind of struggling as a new Muslim, no environment really. Until one of the brothers, actually the brother that called the Adhan (call to prayer) that brought me to tears, he invited me to go with them for three days here and there.
And I really started to be able to practice with Muslims surrounding me and be able to ask questions and learn how to pray properly and learn how to do all of these things. And then that is where that journey began. And then, you know, being able to work on myself, learn the religion. I went home from that, the four months, and I became the Imam (leader) in the Masjid (mosque) for 3-4 years, giving lectures to, you know, the churches would come, the school board would come, you know, the lectures for Jumu'ah (Friday prayer) and these things. And then it really kind of started to set in. It is amazing. And now going back to this story with your future wife then, how did that play out?
How did you get married in the end? Can you tell us about that? Yeah, yeah. So, SubhanAllah (Glory be to God). Have you noticed something? While watching this video, you don't see any ads. Since Towards Eternity is a nonprofit organization, we can only produce these videos through your support. If you want to be a part of this good deed, donate to Towards Eternity and don't miss this golden opportunity. And now going back to this story with your future wife then, how did that play out? How did you get married in the end? Can you tell us about that? Yeah, yeah. So, SubhanAllah (Glory be to God). Even to go back.
So the first time I walked into the building, which was for training, three months before I even met her, I saw her. And I was like, "Wow, she is beautiful." Right? But then I never spoke to her for three months. And then when we spoke, there was obviously an obvious connection that we decided— I mean later on, having to work together and converse. I told her the night that we met, I do not know, I have shared this so it is okay, she said that as a Muslim, we believe everything happens for a reason. It is the plan of God.
She is like, "I wonder what this, us meeting," she is like, "I wonder what the purpose of this is." And I said, "Well, it is because we are supposed to get married and have lots of kids." I was a little bit bold. I was a little bit upfront. -In the very first meeting? -Yeah, yeah. The very first time I ever spoke to her. And she kind of like laughed and was like, "Wow, this is weird." And yeah, so the brother who had called the Adhan (call to prayer) that made me tear up was actually a family friend of hers, her parents, and he became like my mentor. And so he proposed on my behalf, and it was absolutely not. Don't ever mention this again. No. -Straight no? -Straight no. Absolutely not.
So it took five years from the time that we had met until I had come back from Pakistan. And so we went back, and so again same thing, you know, he went on my behalf to propose to the family, and it was like an even harder no this time. It was like, "No. Don't ever even bring it up to my face again. Absolutely not." -Who was that person? -Mother-in-law. Father-in-law loved me because he prayed behind me in the Masjid (mosque). You know, he listened to my Khutbahs (sermons) and speeches and he was there. So he knew me quite well and he was fine with it. But when Mom said no, Mom said no. What happened that your mother-in-law's opinion changed?
So this is the beauty of, you know, in English we say that the Lord works in mysterious ways. This is one of those times. It was the last ten days of Ramadan. I was doing Itikaf (seclusion) in the Masjid (mosque). And they would come as a family for Taraweeh (night prayers). And I would call the Adhan (call to prayer) because we had an Imam (leader) come for, the Hafiz (memorizer of Quran) to lead the Taraweeh. So I would call the Adhan, and she really liked it. She did not know who was making the noise, but it turns out it was me.
But they went home, and my mother-in-law asked my father-in-law, she is like, "Who is this person giving the speeches and Adhan is so beautiful?" And he is like, "That is the guy that you said no to." And she is like, "What? Really?" And it was an Ayah (verse) of the Quran she was reading, if my memory suits me correctly, And it was, I don't remember the exact ayah, but it was something about, you know, not judging people. but giving them a chance to prove themselves. And she said that when she read that, everything changed. Just Allah just changed her heart. You know, and this is truly, you know, Allah is the one who is in control of our hearts.
And one day, out of the blue, like nobody is expecting this, she wrote me a letter. And she said, "I would be honored if you would marry my daughter." And I am like, "What?" And Eid al-Adha (Festival of Sacrifice), we were married. How did your family and people around you react to your conversion? Yeah. So, when I became Muslim, so I have a brother with special needs and then two older sisters as I mentioned, one passed away. But when I became Muslim, it was like, to my sisters, "What are you? You are not from us." You know? And so that really... and we did not live anywhere near each other, and so we were very kind of estranged.
So I spent a couple of years, I would leave prayer mats out at my house when they would come to visit, or I would have a Quran here. So after some time eventually, I told, I was on the phone-- I do not remember exactly the context, I am pretty sure we were arguing about something to be honest. Maybe it was about, do not quote me on this, but maybe my mom would know, about not coming for Christmas. I think that might have been, and then I said, "I am a Muslim. Like this is not for me." And her response was so classic. And she is like, "What do you think, we are stupid?" So to me, I am like, mission accomplished, right?
Mom, if you are watching, just saying, we have had that conversation, it is your turn. And we had a couple of arguments, me and my dad. Nothing dramatic. But the biggest thing is when I changed my name. That is when it was like, "How dare you?" Because I am the last son, like I am the last in my family lineage. My name ends with me. If I do not have a son, that is it, the name does not carry on. So then just became Muhammad William Saleh. What impressed you the most about Islam? What impressed me the most about Islam initially, I would say, is the unity of the Muslims.
When I took my Shahada (testimony of faith), you know, it was a group of brothers that had come from all over the world, and they were in our town, beautiful setting. And I had questions, and it was my wife's father, the head of the Masjid Association. And he had gotten in contact with him, and then he invited me to come. So I had went, and the brothers said, "Okay, we are just going to pray." And the Adhan (call to prayer) was called, and I am not kidding, like tears just started to come. I did not understand obviously what it meant, and it just hit my heart. And then I saw them all pray together.
You have Pakistanis and Africans and, you know, and I am sitting here as this white guy, and this whole spectrum of color and people, different languages, different everything. And they are coming together to pray. And that was like the initial thing. And when I saw this unity, and not based on color, like literally the furthest thing from anybody's mind is what color are you or where are you from. It is just that unity of, it does not matter where you are from. If you hadn't become a Muslim, what would you be doing now? What kind of situation would you be in? Ooh. Dead or in jail? -Yeah? -Yeah.
That's unfortunate, but when I look at my environment, I look at my surroundings, I look at my friends, I look at my culture. Just given my environment and the condition of the people that I grew up with, I do not think it would have been good for me. What impressed you the most about the Prophet (peace be upon him)? Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam (Peace be upon him). That is a loaded question. What impressed me the most is when I look to him as an example of how to deal with the difficulties and hardships in my life. We had a pregnancy loss a few years back. And I would say probably the most difficult thing for me as a father is to come home and tell your kids that their sibling is, has died.
And it, to this day, like brings tears to my eyes, it just shatters my heart. Not so much for me, but their reaction, right? And then I look at a man who lost all of his children except for one in his lifetime. And I look to a man who his own family turned against him, they tried to kill him, they boycotted him, they starved him. All of these things that happened in his life on the difficult side. And yet he remained steadfast. And yet he prayed his Salah (prayer). He fasted during the month of Ramadan. There was nothing that was too difficult for him to bear.
So us as parents, us as Muslims, us as human beings, when we look to his example of the sheer resilience, the faith that he had in the message of Islam. Through all of that, the conquest of Makkah, coming back home and coming and saying, "You know, this is a day of mercy. We are not here to fight, kill, whatever. This is not what we are here for." And so when I look to him, I see such an example for us to follow and to find solace in. You know, when we look at him and those difficulties. If there was a chance to speak to the entire non-Muslim population in the world, what would you like to say to them if you had just a few moments?
I would say that the issues that you deal with that we all have, the struggles that you go through, there is a solution for that. And unfortunately, that solution is being willingly kept from you by people who do not want you to discover the truth. And they do not want you to discover the truth because if you do, you will no longer be reliant upon their system in which they have created. You will free yourself, as they say, from the "Matrix." So you will free yourself from that in your understanding and your purpose in your life. That we have a purpose.
And our purpose is not to fall into these traps of, you know, just becoming part of this well-oiled machine that just destroys everything in its path. Your purpose is much bigger than that. And once you truly accept the fact that I have to be humble, I cannot be arrogant, then you start looking into Islam. You start understanding that wait a second, this is the solution to all of the problems that I have. Not only the problems that I have but as an economic solution, as a solution to the political situations. It is the answer to all of those problems if you take the time to understand it.
And when I saw this unity, and not based on color, and I was just fascinated. So, the first time I walked into the building, I saw her, and she was the first Muslim that I had ever met. It was meeting her, and then it just flipped my whole understanding upside down. We say that, you know, the Lord works in mysterious ways; this is one of those times. One day, she wrote me a letter, and she said I would be honored if you would marry my daughter. Assalamu Alaikum (Peace be upon you) Brother Will Saleh, thank you so much for accepting our invitation. As Towards Eternity, we are very happy to have you with us. I want to first ask, who is Will Saleh?
Can you tell us briefly about your life, please? Wa alaykumu as-salam (And unto you peace), Alhamdulillah (Praise be to God), thank you so much for inviting me. I have been very much looking forward to it. So, in brief, I grew up in Western Canada in the mountains, and as we grew up, no religion in our household. In fact, it was more of an "atheist" kind of family where we did not believe in God; it was, God was for weak people who needed a crutch to get by in life. That was kind of my upbringing about religion. When I was really little, the only thing that there was to do certain times was the community had a Jehovah's Witness, which is a denomination of Christianity, a Kingdom Hall.
Everybody kind of went. My dad is a, you know, a biker from back in the day, big beard, tattoos. So, when you meet people, you know people, so we would end up going there once in a while. And for me, it was an opportunity to dress up as a kid with a suit on and a little tie. But that was really it. That was the only time we had ever been to church, and it wasn't because we were looking for God as a family; it was because there was nothing else to do. I had never heard about Islam. I had never heard about Muslims until I was in high school. It was 9/11, was the first time I ever heard about Muslims.
And for my entire high school years, we had the "war on terror" in the Middle East, and that was the main indoctrination, I would say, about my understanding of Islam. When you grow up in that environment, you do deal with a lot of prejudice, racism, and all of these sorts of things. And then from that point, you know, it is a very long journey of exploration and traveling around the world and coming to understand faith. And then later into my early 20s, I actually discovered Islam. Like in my early high school years, probably around 2003, the hard drugs really hit our town, and it just devastated our town.
There are so many instances in my life of people that died because of drugs, that were stabbed and killed, prison, and just all of these things that are just so destructive. You know, when I was 17, I went to work in Vancouver, and I went on a Friday night to the East Side, East End of Vancouver, and I was shocked because this is, I think it is the heroin capital of the world, is this very small portion of Hastings and Main in Vancouver. You know, I have many friends that have died from drug overdoses, have destroyed their lives.
One of my friends growing up, I actually heard about this a couple of years ago since I had moved, but he just had a bath, but he was intoxicated, and he drowned in the bathtub. New baby, young, I mean like two years, maybe two years older than me. As discussing earlier with you, one of my closest friends, in and out of jail, killed somebody. And these things are not unique, unfortunately. You know, my brother-in-law committed suicide. I lost my sister to a fentanyl overdose a few years back. -Your sister? -My sister, yeah. One of the biggest problems is that you might not question God's existence, but you certainly will question when you look around and you see.
I remember one instance, they have an annual baseball tournament, and there is a rave on the campground and it is all parties, everybody is drinking. And like one of the nights in particular, I just came from one group, we were hanging out, and the next group, and then my friend comes and he is covered in blood. He got stabbed all over the place. Just soaked in blood. And I am like, "What is going on here?" Going to another friend, same thing, he is sliced up. It is really hard to look at those things and not think, "This is not going to end well." Then I started to realize that for me, where am I going to end up? Like what is my story going to look like?
So I made it a point that I said, you know what? Okay, I want to get married. I do not know how, I do not know who, I do not know where, but I have to change myself. When I made that decision, I gave up all the bad stuff that I was doing and just cold turkey, I just walked away from that whole life. How did your journey to Islam start? So, it started when I had decided I want to get married and I have to change my ways, and I moved to a new town. I was just applying for jobs, and I walked past Future Shop, it was called, an electronics store.
And I thought, "Ah, whatever, let's just try." And eventually, after three months, I hired as a seasonal employee, I met my wife, who would later become my wife. And she was the first Muslim that I had ever met. It was meeting her, and then it just flipped my whole understanding upside down. Right? Because the conversation started with, she said, "I am a Muslim." And I am like, "Okay, what is that?" And then so she said XYZ. And I am like, "But I believe ABC about these people." And she said, "No, no, you are totally wrong." And that is where the first confrontation came about my understanding of Islam to someone who is an actual Muslim.
You know, her father was the head of the Muslim Association there in the town that I moved to. And that is really what triggered it because I do not like to think of myself as an ignorant person or when you bring me facts that I have to argue with you to try to refute the facts even though it is the truth. So that is really what sparked my journey in the very beginning about trying to understand this Western media propaganda machine that has been indoctrinating me since 2001. So that is a lot of years of just constant bombardment, you know, and that is everything that has happened in Palestine at those times, in Iraq, and Afghanistan, and in general.
And so it was just like, I believe this, or at least I was told this, taught this, indoctrinated with this, and this person who has firsthand experience of being that is telling me I am totally wrong. So that is where the journey really kind of started. During that initial conversation, we talked for like three hours. I was fascinated with, you know, she had never been to a party, she had never smoked a cigarette, she had never drank alcohol, she never had a boyfriend. Like all of these things, these concepts were so foreign to me. And I am like, "How is this possible?" And she just said, "That is my faith.
That is how I was raised and culture and faith," you know, the Muslim culture and the Muslim faith. And I was fascinated. Like, I am seeing this firsthand, and for me, I was like, "That is it. That is the girl. That is the one." Like, that night. We had that conversation, and then once I started to look into that got a little bit muddy with everything trying to understand; it was very difficult. And I got a DVD, I am not sure if you are familiar, but Sheikh Khalid Yasin from the States, "The Purpose of Life." That lecture changed my life.
I listened to it on repeat, and I was just fascinated that he is literally, as I have briefly discussed, answering and giving a blueprint for the solution to all of the problems that we all complain about here in the West that there is no solution to. He is literally giving you the blueprint. But in the beginning, he said something that was so indelible in my mind, and that is that it is like a glass of water. Your heart is a receptacle like a glass of water. If you turn that glass over, it does not matter how much water you pour; you are never going to fill it up. But once you, once you yourself open up, then you can fill it.
What was the thing that made you say that, "Okay, I am going to be Muslim, that is it, I am just taking this step now"? So what made you say that final leap? It was, I think, the realization that this book is unchanged. But it has all of those answers. You remember I had said that I believe that if God was real, He would not leave us without instruction. And it was once I understood the Quran as being a book that is unchanged, then it really kind of hit me that, you know, these other religious books— and I have studied a bit in different religions— and when you look at the Quran itself, like take the book, throw it away. It does not literally does not matter.
You can have it replicated in a day, word for word, exactly the same, same dialect as it was 1400 years ago through the oral transmission. Then it was, it was really an important factor for me. And then I was like, okay, there is no way I can, you know... How was your Shahada (testimony of faith) moment? Can you tell us how you felt? It was intimidating. So, after the brothers had finished the Salah (prayer), you know, they said, actually we went inside, and there was probably like 30 people. So I am sitting there, right, I am a 22, 23-year-old guy. It is like 30 people sitting there just like looking at me.
I'm like, "This is weird." And the Imam (leader) asked me, he said, "Do you have any questions that we can help you with?" And after witnessing that, you know, I said, "I have so many questions." I was like, "But I know that this is what I am meant to be, I am meant to do is this." And I took my Shahada right there in front of my future father-in-law, my future brothers-in-law, and a future community that I would stand in front of and lead for the prayer. It was emotional. Like so many things flying through my mind, right? Like my family, what are they going to think? As an atheistic approach that hated religion and indoctrinated, you know, worse than myself. But it didn't matter.
Honestly, you know, as you start to see, as you learn, the struggles of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam (peace be upon him) and his life and everything that he had to go through. We all have struggles. We all have difficulties and hardships and trials. And then a couple of years went by where I was really kind of struggling as a new Muslim, no environment really. Until one of the brothers, actually the brother that called the Adhan (call to prayer) that brought me to tears, he invited me to go with them for three days here and there.
And I really started to be able to practice with Muslims surrounding me and be able to ask questions and learn how to pray properly and learn how to do all of these things. And then that is where that journey began. And then, you know, being able to work on myself, learn the religion. I went home from that, the four months, and I became the Imam (leader) in the Masjid (mosque) for 3-4 years, giving lectures to, you know, the churches would come, the school board would come, you know, the lectures for Jumu'ah (Friday prayer) and these things. And then it really kind of started to set in. It is amazing. And now going back to this story with your future wife then, how did that play out?
How did you get married in the end? Can you tell us about that? Yeah, yeah. So, SubhanAllah (Glory be to God). Have you noticed something? While watching this video, you don't see any ads. Since Towards Eternity is a nonprofit organization, we can only produce these videos through your support. If you want to be a part of this good deed, donate to Towards Eternity and don't miss this golden opportunity. And now going back to this story with your future wife then, how did that play out? How did you get married in the end? Can you tell us about that? Yeah, yeah. So, SubhanAllah (Glory be to God). Even to go back.
So the first time I walked into the building, which was for training, three months before I even met her, I saw her. And I was like, "Wow, she is beautiful." Right? But then I never spoke to her for three months. And then when we spoke, there was obviously an obvious connection that we decided— I mean later on, having to work together and converse. I told her the night that we met, I do not know, I have shared this so it is okay, she said that as a Muslim, we believe everything happens for a reason. It is the plan of God.
She is like, "I wonder what this, us meeting," she is like, "I wonder what the purpose of this is." And I said, "Well, it is because we are supposed to get married and have lots of kids." I was a little bit bold. I was a little bit upfront. -In the very first meeting? -Yeah, yeah. The very first time I ever spoke to her. And she kind of like laughed and was like, "Wow, this is weird." And yeah, so the brother who had called the Adhan (call to prayer) that made me tear up was actually a family friend of hers, her parents, and he became like my mentor. And so he proposed on my behalf, and it was absolutely not. Don't ever mention this again. No. -Straight no? -Straight no. Absolutely not.
So it took five years from the time that we had met until I had come back from Pakistan. And so we went back, and so again same thing, you know, he went on my behalf to propose to the family, and it was like an even harder no this time. It was like, "No. Don't ever even bring it up to my face again. Absolutely not." -Who was that person? -Mother-in-law. Father-in-law loved me because he prayed behind me in the Masjid (mosque). You know, he listened to my Khutbahs (sermons) and speeches and he was there. So he knew me quite well and he was fine with it. But when Mom said no, Mom said no. What happened that your mother-in-law's opinion changed?
So this is the beauty of, you know, in English we say that the Lord works in mysterious ways. This is one of those times. It was the last ten days of Ramadan. I was doing Itikaf (seclusion) in the Masjid (mosque). And they would come as a family for Taraweeh (night prayers). And I would call the Adhan (call to prayer) because we had an Imam (leader) come for, the Hafiz (memorizer of Quran) to lead the Taraweeh. So I would call the Adhan, and she really liked it. She did not know who was making the noise, but it turns out it was me.
But they went home, and my mother-in-law asked my father-in-law, she is like, "Who is this person giving the speeches and Adhan is so beautiful?" And he is like, "That is the guy that you said no to." And she is like, "What? Really?" And it was an Ayah (verse) of the Quran she was reading, if my memory suits me correctly, And it was, I don't remember the exact ayah, but it was something about, you know, not judging people. but giving them a chance to prove themselves. And she said that when she read that, everything changed. Just Allah just changed her heart. You know, and this is truly, you know, Allah is the one who is in control of our hearts.
And one day, out of the blue, like nobody is expecting this, she wrote me a letter. And she said, "I would be honored if you would marry my daughter." And I am like, "What?" And Eid al-Adha (Festival of Sacrifice), we were married. How did your family and people around you react to your conversion? Yeah. So, when I became Muslim, so I have a brother with special needs and then two older sisters as I mentioned, one passed away. But when I became Muslim, it was like, to my sisters, "What are you? You are not from us." You know? And so that really... and we did not live anywhere near each other, and so we were very kind of estranged.
So I spent a couple of years, I would leave prayer mats out at my house when they would come to visit, or I would have a Quran here. So after some time eventually, I told, I was on the phone-- I do not remember exactly the context, I am pretty sure we were arguing about something to be honest. Maybe it was about, do not quote me on this, but maybe my mom would know, about not coming for Christmas. I think that might have been, and then I said, "I am a Muslim. Like this is not for me." And her response was so classic. And she is like, "What do you think, we are stupid?" So to me, I am like, mission accomplished, right?
Mom, if you are watching, just saying, we have had that conversation, it is your turn. And we had a couple of arguments, me and my dad. Nothing dramatic. But the biggest thing is when I changed my name. That is when it was like, "How dare you?" Because I am the last son, like I am the last in my family lineage. My name ends with me. If I do not have a son, that is it, the name does not carry on. So then just became Muhammad William Saleh. What impressed you the most about Islam? What impressed me the most about Islam initially, I would say, is the unity of the Muslims.
When I took my Shahada (testimony of faith), you know, it was a group of brothers that had come from all over the world, and they were in our town, beautiful setting. And I had questions, and it was my wife's father, the head of the Masjid Association. And he had gotten in contact with him, and then he invited me to come. So I had went, and the brothers said, "Okay, we are just going to pray." And the Adhan (call to prayer) was called, and I am not kidding, like tears just started to come. I did not understand obviously what it meant, and it just hit my heart. And then I saw them all pray together.
You have Pakistanis and Africans and, you know, and I am sitting here as this white guy, and this whole spectrum of color and people, different languages, different everything. And they are coming together to pray. And that was like the initial thing. And when I saw this unity, and not based on color, like literally the furthest thing from anybody's mind is what color are you or where are you from. It is just that unity of, it does not matter where you are from. If you hadn't become a Muslim, what would you be doing now? What kind of situation would you be in? Ooh. Dead or in jail? -Yeah? -Yeah.
That's unfortunate, but when I look at my environment, I look at my surroundings, I look at my friends, I look at my culture. Just given my environment and the condition of the people that I grew up with, I do not think it would have been good for me. What impressed you the most about the Prophet (peace be upon him)? Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam (Peace be upon him). That is a loaded question. What impressed me the most is when I look to him as an example of how to deal with the difficulties and hardships in my life. We had a pregnancy loss a few years back. And I would say probably the most difficult thing for me as a father is to come home and tell your kids that their sibling is, has died.
And it, to this day, like brings tears to my eyes, it just shatters my heart. Not so much for me, but their reaction, right? And then I look at a man who lost all of his children except for one in his lifetime. And I look to a man who his own family turned against him, they tried to kill him, they boycotted him, they starved him. All of these things that happened in his life on the difficult side. And yet he remained steadfast. And yet he prayed his Salah (prayer). He fasted during the month of Ramadan. There was nothing that was too difficult for him to bear.
So us as parents, us as Muslims, us as human beings, when we look to his example of the sheer resilience, the faith that he had in the message of Islam. Through all of that, the conquest of Makkah, coming back home and coming and saying, "You know, this is a day of mercy. We are not here to fight, kill, whatever. This is not what we are here for." And so when I look to him, I see such an example for us to follow and to find solace in. You know, when we look at him and those difficulties. If there was a chance to speak to the entire non-Muslim population in the world, what would you like to say to them if you had just a few moments?
I would say that the issues that you deal with that we all have, the struggles that you go through, there is a solution for that. And unfortunately, that solution is being willingly kept from you by people who do not want you to discover the truth. And they do not want you to discover the truth because if you do, you will no longer be reliant upon their system in which they have created. You will free yourself, as they say, from the "Matrix." So you will free yourself from that in your understanding and your purpose in your life. That we have a purpose.
And our purpose is not to fall into these traps of, you know, just becoming part of this well-oiled machine that just destroys everything in its path. Your purpose is much bigger than that. And once you truly accept the fact that I have to be humble, I cannot be arrogant, then you start looking into Islam. You start understanding that wait a second, this is the solution to all of the problems that I have. Not only the problems that I have but as an economic solution, as a solution to the political situations. It is the answer to all of those problems if you take the time to understand it.